Sunday, 2012-02-05

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zesterAny dev's around?04:23
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wmarone_progress on nook wifi: drivers in kernel build, no progress. ti wlan drivers build, but omit wl12xx sdio support. driver package included with nook release builds strangely, with a billion symbols missing...06:17
wmarone_more tomorrow06:17
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kendrickso is tux paint ported? ;)07:27
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* dm8tbr is still for 40min around at FOSDEM09:10
* dm8tbr curses his early flight09:11
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gpradehello, anyone there?09:29
* timoph is somewhere :p09:32
timophbut yeah. plenty of people here09:33
* dm8tbr yawns09:33
dm8tbrstill 10min at FOSDEM09:33
* timoph checks if there's something interesting streaming today from there09:35
gpradeplease help me, i am a absolute beginner in qt, i have an idea for an app, but i didnt find someone in my region who could help me, my english is not so good to work with international people, i am from germany, so i think i must write it self, but i have to start from absolute zero, for the app i have two questions09:36
gpradei want to have the app for tablet and for smartphone and i think i want to build it for mer/nemo09:36
timophQt is Qt no matter where you run it09:37
timophI'd start looking into qml09:37
* timoph searches for a link09:37
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timophalso good source for Qt stuff is
gpradeok thats the first question, i think about an app like teachertool for apple, should i start do the gui in qml or in this kind of old qt, like the old programms with this mainwindow.ui things09:39
timophand #qt and #qt-qml here in freenode09:39
gpradethe old qt-apps are build without qml09:39
gpradei want to have my software for desktop-pc (notebooks) too09:40
timophqml is not tied to mobile devices09:40
timophbut I'd say that's a design issue09:40
timophkeep the UI layer thin so you can provide different UIs for different targets if needed09:41
gpradewhat you mean with design issue?09:41
timophdesigning the application so that the UI is easily replaceable09:41
timophfor example if there's a need to provide qwidgets based ui for desktops, etc09:42
gpradeok, then you say i have two ways for the ui? one in qml and one in old qt style?09:42
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timophif you want/need to, yes09:43
gpradeok, thanks09:43
timophbut you can do it just with qml too09:43
gpradethe second qeuestion09:43
gpradeonly with qml? works than the software on windows too?09:43
gpradeor on mac?09:43
gpradeor on mer?09:44
timophQt everywhere :)09:44
timophit's a crossplatform toolkit09:44
timophso not a Mer/Mac/whatever specific thing09:44
gpradeok, the second question is the database, do i use sqlite or mysql? wich will work on mer, windows, linux, mac?09:45
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timophI'd urge you the read the Qt documentation. besides the db choice depends on your application and it's needs.09:46
gpradebut which one will work on mer? is it the same with the ui? when i use qt it works one all???09:47
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timophalso you'll get much better Qt support from #qt channel09:47
timophdunno if anyone has packages mmysql for Mer09:47
Stskeepssqlite is enabled09:48
gpradeyes, but i want ask first here, so i dont start with the wrong things, i want that the software will work on mer09:48
gpradeok, then i use qml and sqlite, right?09:49
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timophexperiment and see what works for you needs09:49
gpradeok, thank for your help09:49
timophStskeeps: how's fosdem going?09:50
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djszapiStskeeps: speaking of fosdem, do you know anything about Henri Bergius ?09:54
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Stskeepsdjszapi: define know?10:08
Stskeepshe was in our devrom yesterday10:08
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djszapiStskeeps: did not find him today, and he did not answer for the call either.10:25
Stskeepsok, dunno10:27
Stskeepsmaybe he went earlier home10:27
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* Stskeeps is utterly trashed but had a good fosdem18:20
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zesterGood afterneen Mer folks :)18:52
Stskeepsgood afternoon zeste18:53
zester:) PackageKit is evil!!!!!!18:53
zesterI have done something cool. I have encrypted QML files being serverd over the internet from my Amazon S3 account like web pages.18:54
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Stskeepscrazy, but cool ;)18:55
zesterWell, I figured that hardware vendors might want to develop SAS apps using Qt and QML.18:56
zesterWorks nicely but! I have to figure out how to import(include) external QML libs18:57
zesterI can defantly see removing QWidgets from Qt as a possability.18:59
* Stskeeps has to spend some time getting the mips port official tonight19:00
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zesterAnyone have any experance with Pandaboard ES?19:03
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Stskeepspandaboard i know we have tried, not ES19:06
RaYmAnStskeeps: what device is that on? (The mips port)19:06
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zesterI was think of picking one up, was wondering what others though of pandaboard in general.19:08
StskeepsRaYmAn: generic O32 ABI, ie, for MIPS3219:08
StskeepsRaYmAn: i don't have any hardware adaptations besides qemu yet19:08
RaYmAnfair enough :)19:08
Stskeepsport it and they'll come, or smething ..;)19:09
RaYmAnI finally gave in and ordered one of those cheap Ainol 7" tablets with MIPS, lol19:09
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Stskeepsah, cool19:09
RaYmAnthey just aren't good at releasing updated kernel source :(19:09
RaYmAnit runs 3.0.8 or something, but the latest source they have is 2.6.31 :P19:10
wmarone_ah, china19:10
StskeepsRaYmAn: maybe19:11
RaYmAnyeah, there's a generic 3.x kernel there19:11
RaYmAnso that still requires me bothering to port all the board-specific stuff to 3.x :)19:11
zesterAinol 7" tablets can you install Meggo on that(is it unlocked)?19:12
zesterMeggo = Meego19:12
Stskeepszester: mer, perhaps, it's MIPS19:13
RaYmAnit should be19:13
RaYmAnheck, they even include source for their usb low-level recovery tool19:13
RaYmAnwell, the soc vendor does19:13
zesterI was wondering because a lot of tablets wont let you install an alternative linux os on it. Some you can even update the android version on.19:13
Stskeepsyes, but gles drivers is always a bit difficult19:14
RaYmAnI can't verify until I actually have it, but from what I can tell, it looks fairly open19:14
RaYmAnthe stock Android 4.0 ICS rom is built in engineering mode, so it gives root over usb by default :P19:14
RaYmAnso I would severely doubt that they locked it down :P19:15
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RaYmAnStskeeps: yeah..the GPU vendor does mention X11 drivers and stuff, but they don't seem to be public :(19:17
Stskeepsperhaps it is pretty much the code19:17
StskeepsRaYmAn: i got some contacts today so i'll see where things lead19:17
RaYmAnCool :)19:17
RaYmAnI should have this tablet in my hands in 2-4 weeks ;P19:18
Stskeepsi'll help you try to get mer on there19:18
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RaYmAnSounds good :) It should at least be possible to get unaccelerated19:19
zesterWow I have to find one in the us shipping is as much as the tablet is.19:24
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Stskeepsa lot of work to be done for non-android on it though19:25
harbaumwhat device are you talking about?19:25
Stskeepsainol 7" 99$ MIPS tablet19:26
RaYmAnzester: I went with$ incl shipping..but it'll take a month or so to get it then ;)19:27
zesterWell as long as its possable for non android stuff I am game.19:27
RaYmAnnothing public right now, but if we can get drivers, it should be,heh19:29
harbaumi always thought angry birds is native code. i wouldn't expect that to run on mips19:30
Stskeepsharbaum: well, perhaps they used the MIPS NDK19:30
RaYmAnI don't think the market version works19:30
RaYmAniirc it comes with a special angry birds build, lol19:30
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harbaumthere indeed is a mips ndk ... but i doubt many people are using it. target audience is pretty small19:34
RaYmAnthey probably managed to get some special deal19:34
RaYmAnI guess19:34
RaYmAnI think they might have some dynamic recompiler type thing as well19:35
RaYmAnemulator-style =P19:35
harbaumdynamic recompilation from arm to mips? sounds too much like voodoo for me19:36
RaYmAnIt might just have been people misunderstanding tbh19:37
Stskeepswell, we do qemu-arm..19:37
Stskeepsso not entirely impossible19:37
ShadowJKthey seem to port angry birds to everything these days19:37
RaYmAnNothing is impossible ;P19:37
RaYmAnI wouldn't imagine it running particularly fast though19:37
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harbaumyeah, androids main purpose definitely is to be a angry birds runtime19:38
* wmarone_ throws rocks at wifi drivers19:38
wmarone_harbaum: it does an exceptional job at that ;)19:38
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RaYmAnisn't it really just AOSP support for them? Because of license terms from the hardware vendors19:41
Stskeepsyeah, i guess so19:41
RaYmAnSo it's a good thing they do it really19:41
RaYmAnwell, it'd be better if they could slapdown the vendors into better terms but19:42
RaYmAnoh gee..the SoC vendor has actually released a linux dist for the SoC...but it's using SDL and wGui instead of x11 :/19:48
Stskeepsfor which?19:49
Stskeepsor the GPU19:49
RaYmAnit's for the jz4770 soc19:50
Stskeepsingenic isn't the GPU vendor19:50
RaYmAnno, but they are the SoC vendor and presumably the GPU is inside the SoC package ;)19:50
Stskeepsit isn't19:50
Stskeepsit's vivante(?)19:50
RaYmAnSo? :P19:51
Stskeepsremember MIPS can do crazy things like pci :P19:51
* Stskeeps ponders19:51
RaYmAnheh, still though..size constraints and such19:51
Stskeepsno GPU in it19:52
Stskeepsor hmm19:52
Stskeeps'3d gpu['19:52
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Stskeepsok, nevermind19:52
_av500_there is ARM chips with PCI too19:53
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zesterAndroid MIPS looks to be using Myriad Dalvik turbo19:54
_av500_mips is desperate19:54
zesterDesperation is a good thing mabe that will presuade them to be more open with the community.19:57
wmarone_mips can be as open as they want19:57
wmarone_that doesn't help with GPU vendors19:57
zesterGPU vendors are just dumb there only hurting them selfs.20:00
_av500_mips should put arm mali gpus :)20:00
wmarone_zester: doubtful, they seem to be doing quite well20:00
wmarone_maybe lower end vendors looking to break into the market20:00
wmarone__av500_: once we have full es 2.0 drivers that'll be nice20:00
Stskeepswmarone_: any more movement on wifi? what kind issues do you run into?20:03
wmarone_so I've got the firmware in the right spot20:03
wmarone_but I'm balancing two sets of drivers, trying to figure out how to get one or the other to work20:03
wmarone_one is the set that came with the kernel sources, which builds but spews a ton of undefined symbols and won't insmod20:04
Stskeepsokay, modprobe or insmod?20:04
wmarone_the other is the one vgrade pointed me to, which I can build and load but nothing twitches20:04
_av500_what hw?20:04
wmarone_the wl1271 in the nook color is attached via sdio, and his notes mention it, but I can't seem to get an sdio module out of the thing20:05
Stskeepsdid you check if any of the symbols are accesible through other modes?20:05
wmarone_that or it's built in and just not doing it20:05
wmarone_(or platform data isn't being communicated, which is also possible)20:05
wmarone_Stskeeps: other modes?20:05
Stskeepswmarone_: modules, sorry20:05
wmarone_no the one spewing symbols turns out a single .ko and no other modules20:06
wmarone_and the symbol names are very much not something found in the core kernel20:06
Stskeepsi was thinking kernel wise, as maybe mac80211 is a .ko20:06
Stskeepswhat kind of symbols were they?20:06
wmarone_they look like something I would expect to find elsewhere in the TI code20:07
wmarone_so I'm looking to stick with the one that vgrade pointed me to20:08
wmarone_which has a compatibility module for 2.6.3220:08
* Stskeeps
Stskeepsmaybe a module not loaded or something20:11
wmarone_but also not being built20:11
wmarone_it's being built, but where's it going...20:11
wmarone_I must be doing something wrong20:13
* Stskeeps glances at
wmarone_so each object needs symbols from the other...?20:13
Stskeepsnot sure, i haven't seen the build tree20:14
Stskeepsi would assume ther would be ultiple .ko's built20:14
wmarone_as would I20:14
wmarone_but on the Android image there's only a single .ko20:15
Stskeepsand i'm going to assume it's not built into the kernel20:15
wmarone_if it was I would imagine it would be satisfied and load20:15
Stskeepsgot a 'sdio.ko' thing20:16
wmarone_not that I've run into20:16
wmarone_that's the source tree20:16
wmarone_wl1271/stad/ when built will produce the tiwlan_drv.ko20:17
wmarone_wl1271/platform/os/linux will produce a tiwlan_drv.ko then mv it to a .o file20:17
Stskeepsi don't have my nook along, what .ko's are on there?20:17
wmarone_only the tiwlan_drv.ko20:17
timophStskeeps: some progress tonight -
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Stskeepstimoph: congrats :)20:19
timophdoesn't look pretty but at least it didn't crash :p20:20
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yavkatahi, I21:34
Stskeepshello :)21:34
yavkataI ordered an n9 recently, and I was wondring how is Nemo coming along21:34
Stskeepsfairly well, though it's difficutl to support n9 sanely for various reasons21:35
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yavkataI know the OMAP platform has some closed source stuff, but it's practically the same for n9 and n950, right?21:38
Stskeepsright, the problem isn't really hardware adaptation in that regard, it's the fact that officially there's no way to re-flash your device aftwards21:39
Stskeepswith a firmware image21:39
Stskeepsof course people have it running anyway, but..21:40
yavkataso once I flash it with nemo, there's no way to revert back to harmattan?21:40
yavkatais that what you're saying?21:40
Stskeepsofficially, right21:41
Stskeeps discusses the problem21:42
Stskeepsunofficially there's always a way21:42
yavkatathanks for the link :)21:43
Stskeepsi wouldn't have bought a n9 if i didn't think i could hack it suficiently21:43
yavkatame too!21:43
yavkatawell, I wasn't sure, but I always had a lot of faith in the community :)21:43
Stskeepsso what are you hoping to do with it?21:43
yavkatawell, I wanted to have a phone running a community managed linux distro :)21:44
yavkatawith all the benefits from that21:44
yavkatacrazy stuff like apache, metasploit, aircrack21:44
yavkataIt's been a dream of mine for a long time21:45
yavkataand I was really wondering for a long time whether to buy a n900 or n921:45
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yavkatain the end, I decided that n9 was the better choice, because it had better hardware21:45
yavkatan900s are nowadays difficult to get anyway21:45
yavkataand are getting more and more expensive..21:46
Stskeepsthey still sell them here in .pl21:47
yavkatawell, I searched on ebay and new ones are around 350$21:48
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yavkataI managed to get a n9 64gb for 55021:48
yavkataand that was pretty awesome :)21:48
yavkataone more question21:49
yavkatawhat's the difference between cold flash and warm flash?21:50
yavkatais it always possible to cold flash the device even though it's bricked and won't boot21:50
Stskeepscold flash is a way to connect to the omap boot loader over usb and flash from scratch practically21:50
Stskeepsthis image has to be signed in head and toe though21:51
yavkataso you can always cold flash official firmware?21:52
Stskeeps-usually-, i don't want to give any promises21:53
Stskeepsbut traditionally these devices are damn hard to brick21:53
Stskeepsi've done obscene things to my n900 and it stood up21:53
yavkatathat's good to know :)21:54
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yavkataand what about nemo itself? Does it support phone functions?21:57
Stskeepsyes it does21:57
yavkataawesome :)21:58
yavkatacan't wait to make the switch..21:59
yavkataI actually found instructions online to flash nemo to the n921:59
Stskeepsjust be aware this is not as published experience as a commercial product21:59
yavkatabut I'm pretty sure these instructions are for the 16 gb version21:59
yavkatathat's not a problem for me22:00
yavkataI want something that's not locked and dumbed down22:01
yavkataI don't care if it has swype and stuff..22:01
Stskeepsand that due to feb11, kernel is unlikely to go beyond 2.6.32 without significant community involvement22:01
Stskeepsnot because of closed source kernel drivers, but simply because the upstreaming of the device kernel didn't happen sufficiently since erm, people left the building22:02
yavkataI see22:03
Stskeepswe have .37 with working power management etc on n900, a lot upstreamed, compared to maemo5's old .2822:03
yavkatabut it should still be possible to move to newer kernels with a bunch of patches, right?22:03
Stskeepsit should, but we found out with the n900 that even with the people who wrote the original code it can be a significant chore22:04
Sagetoo bad the 3.0 kernel for n900 didn't finish before people left :/22:05
Stskeepswell, we got it to some level22:05
Sageyes, but it is not usable yet :/22:05
Sagewould be nice if we would have comparison of kernels for n900 and what is actually missing.22:06
SageDoes our 2.6.37 kernel have all the same functionalities than the .28 had?22:06
Stskeepsit's fairly close, at least22:07
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yavkataI still don't understand what are the other obstacles to updating the kernel besides closed source drivers..22:08
Stskeepsyavkata: when you get to bleeding edge mobile technology, it's significantly harder than many people seem to think22:09
Stskeepsyavkata: as an example, the omap power management framework isn't after 2-3 years accepted in linux mainline yet22:09
Stskeepsand without that, well, you can say bye to anything over 4 hours of battery22:09
yavkatadamn, that sux :(22:11
Stskeepsit does, but more and more things get properly upstreamed22:11
Stskeepsso the tide is turning a bit22:11
yavkatawell, I bought the n9 believeing it's the device with the best chance of a fully open OS22:12
_av500_Stskeeps: at least debian isnt deprecating your arch soon :)22:12
yavkataI hope I wasn't wrong, cause I'll be stuck with this phone for a while22:13
yavkataafter all, I'm just a poor CS student from .bg :D22:13
Stskeeps_av500_: these days i don't care that much about that, i can fairly easily do a armv4t port if i wanted :P22:13
Stskeepsbut i'm not expecting others to carry that burden22:14
Stskeeps(i do have a freerunner..)22:15
_av500_Stskeeps: isnt there a more modern kernel for n9/950, thats the same cpu as 900, no?22:17
Stskeeps_av500_: it's comparable to beagleboard xm22:18
Stskeeps_av500_: so, it's not impossible someone can slap something together that will work, and have PM22:18
Stskeepsbut it will be significant work22:19
Stskeepsand i'm not a kernel developer :)22:19
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yavkataI'm guessing that pm is not integrater in Nemo, is it?22:20
Stskeepswe have same kernel as is in harmattan22:20
yavkatamore good news22:20
_av500_Stskeeps: what kernel rev is that?22:20
Stskeeps_av500_: 2.6.32.something22:21
_av500_Stskeeps: we have a .35 that does pm22:21
Stskeepsin n900 we have 2.6.37 with a bunch of patches on top (product was .28)22:21
_av500_Stskeeps: i hope mer compliance does not ask for 3.0.X :)22:22
Stskeeps_av500_: what mer compliance? ;)22:22
_av500_Stskeeps: cant remember why that always in ma head :)22:22
Stskeepsi think our kernel headers are at .37 or something22:22
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SageI think only requirement comes from systemd that "requires" .37 kernel officially but there are backported patches for .32 at least22:29
Sageok, time to sleep.22:29
* Sage zzZZZZZzzzZZzZZZzZzZZZzzz22:29
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Stskeepsooh, A day made of glass -2-:
cxl000Is there a public n900 kernel git? Is the work towards 3.x available?23:30
Stskeepscxl000: it's on gitorious somewhere23:30
cxl000I had seen a reference to there but it did not exist and subsequent searching has so far been unsuccessful.23:35
kimjunot really a wip anymore, at least I haven't touched it for couple of months now.23:44
kimjugetting the sgx forward ported to current 3.3rc needs more work, but that should then get a working cpufreq/pm..23:45
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