Wednesday, 2017-03-22

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Venty'llo.06:45
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Guest70314Ouh.06:49
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Venty'llo.07:18
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nh1402hello08:45
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Jaymzz_Hi! nh140208:57
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nh1402good morning Jaymzz_08:58
occirolHi all !08:59
Jaymzz_Morning! Gonna start the meeting in a min :) hopefully everyone is here!08:59
sledgeso/08:59
Jaymzz_sledges: \o08:59
sledgesdang, you sniped before 9am, ebay style ;p09:00
Jaymzz_#startmeeting Sailfish OS, Open Source, Collaboration 22nd of March 201709:00
merbotMeeting started Wed Mar 22 09:00:39 2017 UTC.  The chair is Jaymzz_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings.09:00
merbotUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.09:00
*** merbot changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, Open Source, Collaboration 22nd of March 2017)"09:00
Jaymzz_#info meeting information and agenda can be found here: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2017-March/007764.html09:00
Jaymzz_I am the meeting's chairperson today and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please behave, be gentle and show due respect.09:01
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Jaymzz_#info Since this meeting was going to be a longer-than-usual session, I was forced to reduce the duration of some of the topics by requests from sailors who have to do their work! In case the time was not enough, we can continue the topic during the next meeting (whenever we agree the time and date). I also have moved the two related topics to the end of the meeting by request.09:01
Jaymzz_#topic Brief introduction (5 minutes). Please prefix your name/handle with # info09:01
*** merbot changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 minutes). Please prefix your name/handle with # info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, Open Source, Collaboration 22nd of March 2017)"09:01
Jaymzz_#info James Noori, Community Manager, Jolla09:01
r0kk3rz#info Lewis Rockliffe, community member09:02
veskuh#info Vesa-Matti Hartikainen, Program Manager, Jolla09:02
Venty#info Martin Ebnoether, Community Member and SailfishOS Fanboy09:02
occirol#info occirol, Community member09:02
nh1402#info nh1402, community member and a sfdroid guy09:02
tomoshokas#info Tomoshokas, Community member09:03
locusf#info Aleksi Suomalainen, Nemo and Sailfish Community member09:03
chriadam_#info Chris Adams, developer at Jolla09:03
jlassilairc://chat.freenode.net:6667/#info Juhani Lassila, Head of Communications, Jolla09:03
sledges#info Simonas Leleiva, l10n'n'hw @ jolla09:03
libregeekingkid[#info Raju , Community Member09:04
pketo#info Pami Ketolainen, backend developer @Jolla09:04
M4rtinK#info Martin Kolman, community member and modRana developer09:04
jlassilairc://chat.freenode.net:6667/#info Juhani Lassila, Head of Communications, Jolla09:04
eekkelund#info eekkelund,  Maemo Community council + community member09:04
Jaymzz_We should be more, come on guys :D09:05
ljo#info Leif-Jöran Olsson, community09:06
ApBBBwe know eachother :P09:06
Jaymzz_The bot should know too ;)09:06
Jaymzz_Moving to the first topic in 30 sec09:06
CoolgeekI'm just a regular jolla1 user, not even a dev, translation or else, so I will stay quiet :p09:07
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Jaymzz_#topic MWC Announcements Q&A (20 mins) Asked by c_la , backup: r0kk3rz09:07
*** merbot changes topic to "MWC Announcements Q&A (20 mins) Asked by c_la , backup: r0kk3rz (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, Open Source, Collaboration 22nd of March 2017)"09:07
Jaymzz_#info This topic is shortened in duration as explained before. The Q&A is going to be divided into 2 sections. The first section is to answer the top questions from TJC Q&A page ( https://together.jolla.com/question/157639/jolla-sony-xperia-qa/?sort=votes&page=1 ) and second, whatever time we have left in 20 minutes, will be dedicated to community members asking their questions live. In case there were unanswered questions left, we09:07
Jaymzz_will take this topic with us to the next meeting.09:07
Jaymzz_#link https://together.jolla.com/question/157639/jolla-sony-xperia-qa/?sort=votes&page=109:07
sledgeswe welcome everyone, users opinion is just as important (if not the most)09:07
ApBBBSince i was the one that started the q&a topic in tjc i'll better start with the questions09:08
Jaymzz_ApBBB: Let's go over as many TJC questions as possible09:08
ApBBBfirst and more importand. Why isn't there a Xperia X compact at the store already :P09:08
ApBBBseriously:  The slides stated that SFOS will be supported on a range of devices. Will those devices be available from the jolla store or a user can buy (from any ventor) and then install SFOS on one.?09:08
ApBBBWill sony give jolla access to the SW that powers its really good cameras so SFOS can fully exploit them?09:09
jlassilaThanks for the questions!09:09
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jlassilaSo basically: the practical side of things, i.e. how a user gets the Xperia Sailfish device are not agreed fully yet. So unfortunately we will need to come back to this at a later stage.09:09
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ApBBBMany people were asking about Alien D support? We know the answer but better answer it here also.09:10
Jaymzz_ApBBB: Wait for the answers first please before asking your next question. After these are answered, let me handle TJC questions so they can be logged properly :)09:10
ApBBBok ok. sorry09:10
jlassilaThe answer for the Alien D support is yes. Simply.09:10
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Jaymzz_ApBBB: Thanks! You will get all of your answers either way ;)09:11
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jlassila@veskuh: camera09:11
veskuhFor the camera, we cannot yet promise that all the features of the camera are supported, but we are working on it and we think that we are going to get great quality pictures out of the camera.09:11
VentyI personally would find it very cool to just walk into a store and buy a phone with SFOS on it.09:12
Jaymzz_So let's do it like this: I'll ask the TJC questions as # info, and will paste the answeres underneath as another # info in order to log everything properly and make them easier to find/read09:12
nh1402good idea09:12
Jaymzz_#info First question: How do we get Xperias running Sailfish OS?09:12
Jaymzz_#info Answer: So basically: the practical side of things, i.e. how a user gets the Xperia Sailfish device are not agreed fully yet. So unfortunately we will need to come back to this at a later stage.09:13
Jaymzz_#info second question: Alien Dalvik support?09:13
Jaymzz_#info Answer: Simply yes.09:13
Jaymzz_#info Third question: Will sony give jolla access to the SW that powers its really good cameras so SFOS can fully exploit them?09:14
Jaymzz_#info Answer: For the camera, we cannot yet promise that all the features of the camera are supported, but we are working on it and we think that we are going to get great quality pictures out of the camera.09:14
ApBBBok. another question was who will handle the warranty. because installing other stuff now on sony phones voids the warranty i think.09:15
Jaymzz_For the next question, I'll pick them from TJC, after those are done, and we have time left, others can ask addiional questions09:15
Jaymzz_Okay let's go with the warranty question first since it's asked now09:15
ApBBBthere were questions about the sony involvement in this.how much are they helping or if they just let jolla use the devices.09:16
jwalck#info Jonatan Walck, Community member09:16
jwalckoh, I was scrolled off. appologies!09:16
ApBBBJaymzz_: i copy paste from the tjc topic09:16
ApBBBor interprate09:16
Jaymzz_ApBBB: The goal was to let me handle that so it can get properly logged :)09:16
Jaymzz_So if you could please let me do it, I'd be grateful!09:16
ApBBByes ok. no problem09:17
Jaymzz_#info Fourth question: How will the warranty be handled?09:17
Jaymzz_Veskuh ^09:17
jlassilaAbout warranty: this goes to the same category as the first one: i.e. not agreed yet.09:17
Jaymzz_ApBBB: Thanks. This way we can be more time efficient as well :)09:18
Jaymzz_#info Fifth question: To what extent are Sony involved?  Are they simply allowing their hardware to be ported onto, or are they looking at becoming an official partner?  In essence, in the future, could we buy a Sony device running SFOS?09:18
Jaymzz_#info Answer to the previous question: Not agreed yet.09:18
jlassilaThis is a collaboration between Jolla and Sony Open Devices Program. The future regarding "buying a Sony device with Sailfish OS" is under discussion, and will be announced when we know.09:19
Jaymzz_#info Answer: This is a collaboration between Jolla and Sony Open Devices Program. The future regarding "buying a Sony device with Sailfish OS" is under discussion, and will be announced when we know.09:19
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Jaymzz_#info Sixth question: When can we expect the first Xperias with SFOS? I imagine it will be an official port of SFOS onto an Xperia already running Android.  If this is the case, will there be a clear, step-by-step process to help those Jolla fans who don't have great tech knowledge09:20
jlassilaWe target to have something to offer at the end of Q2.09:21
Jaymzz_#info Answer: We target to have something to offer at the end of Q2.09:21
jlassilaAnd yes our aim is to make it as easy as possible.09:21
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Jaymzz_#info Seventh question: Will the Dual Sim models be supported if the single sim devices are going to receive SFOS?09:22
pavi[m]End of june?09:22
jlassilaYes end of June.09:22
jlassilaOur first project is with the Xpreria X device, further devices are still to be agreed and announced. Aim is to support several Xpreria series devices. 09:22
Jaymzz_#info Answer: Our first project is with the Xpreria X device, further devices are still to be agreed and announced. Aim is to support several Xpreria series devices. 09:23
ApBBBkind of scary that many things aren't set to stone yet.09:23
jlassilaXperia, sorry for not spelling right :)09:23
pavi[m]Will it be a limited sale device. Should we be trigger ready to click on `buy now`?09:23
ApBBBjlassila: i want an Xperia compact :P09:23
jlassilaApBBB: it's a project.09:23
Jaymzz_#info Eighth question: End of June?09:23
Jaymzz_#info Answer: Yes09:23
occirolwhich model of Xperia X ?09:23
veskuhoccirol: We start with Single SIM version09:24
ApBBBJaymzz_: there was a dual boot question09:24
Jaymzz_#info Ninth question: Does the cooperation include Xperia tablets?09:24
veskuhoccirol: F512109:24
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Jaymzz_ApBBB: Next Q :)09:24
ApBBBveskuh: my kingdom for a compact :D09:24
jlassilaFor tha tablet Q: Our first project is with the Xpreria X device, further devices are still to be agreed and announced.09:24
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occirolveskuh: thanks for the precision09:25
CoolgeekWill tey be available worldwide ? only in certain part of the world ?09:25
veskuhApBBB: Hmm.. Is it a big kingdom ;)09:25
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Jaymzz_#info Answer: Our first project is with the Xpreria X device, further devices are still to be agreed and announced.09:25
ApBBBveskuh: not much but is in a sunny place :P09:25
Jaymzz_#info Tenth question: Will the devices be pure SFOS, or will they be dual boot?09:25
Jaymzz_side note: 5 minutes left09:25
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jwalckDoes this mean we should run out and buy ourselves an xperia x with android today, getting sailfish and alien dalvik on it after Q2 2017?09:26
Jaymzz_Veskuh Could you answer the dual boot question? :)09:26
pavi[m]jwalck:  good question09:26
veskuhPracticalities are undecided, but we are considering both options single and dual boot.09:26
ApBBBjwalck: i'll wait TBH. I hope they will offer a ready to buy device09:27
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Jaymzz_#info Answer: Practicalities are undecided, but we are considering both options single and dual boot.09:27
Jaymzz_#info Eleventh question: Does this mean we should run out and buy ourselves an xperia x with android today, getting sailfish and alien dalvik on it after Q2 2017?Does this mean we should run out and buy ourselves an xperia x with android today, getting sailfish and alien dalvik on it after Q2 2017?Does this mean we should run out and buy ourselves an xperia x with android today, getting sailfish and alien dalvik on it after Q2 2017?09:27
Jaymzz_Does this mean we should run out and buy ourselves an xperia x with android today, getting sailfish and alien dalvik on it after Q2 2017?Does this mean we should run out and buy ourselves an xperia x with android today, getting sailfish and alien dalvik on it after Q2 2017?Does this mean we should run out and buy ourselves an xperia x with android today, getting sailfish and alien dalvik on it after Q2 2017?Does this mean we should09:27
Jaymzz_run out and buy ourselves an xperia x with android today, getting sailfish and alien dalvik on it after Q2 2017?Does this mean we should run out and buy ourselves an xperia x with android today, getting sailfish and alien dalvik on it after Q2 2017?Does this mean we should run out and buy ourselves an xperia x with android today, getting sailfish and alien dalvik on it after Q2 2017?Does this mean we should run out and buy ourselves09:27
Jaymzz_ an xperia x with android today, getting sailfish and alien dalvik on it after Q2 2017?Does this mean we should run out and buy ourselves an xperia x with android today, getting sailfish and alien dalvik on it after Q2 2017?Does this mean we should run out and buy ourselves an xperia x with android today, getting sailfish and alien dalvik on it after Q2 2017?Does this mean we should run out and buy ourselves an xperia x with android09:27
Jaymzz_ today, getting sailfish and alien dalvik on it after Q2 2017?Does this mean we should run out and buy ourselves an xperia x with android today, getting sailfish and alien dalvik on it after Q2 2017?Does this mean we should run out and buy ourselves an xperia x with android today, getting sailfish and alien dalvik on it after Q2 2017?Does this mean we should run out and buy ourselves an xperia x with android today, getting sailfish09:27
Jaymzz_and alien dalvik on it after Q2 2017?Does this mean we should run out and buy ourselves an xperia x with android today, getting sailfish and alien dalvik on it after Q2 2017?Does this mean we should run out and buy ourselves an xperia x with android today, getting sailfish and alien dalvik on it after Q2 2017?09:27
Jaymzz_oh wow09:27
occirolwow09:27
veskuhHah09:27
Jaymzz_Sorry about that09:27
ApBBBscrew dual boot if you ask me. just make everything work09:27
pavi[m]The question with fans is, should I buy the phone now or wait for sale. Will the sale be limited or not?09:27
Jaymzz_#undo09:27
merbotRemoving item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0xa53eb50>09:27
Jaymzz_#info Does this mean we should run out and buy ourselves an xperia x with android today, getting sailfish and alien dalvik on it after Q2 2017?09:27
Coolgeeksame, I would prefer to buy a ready to use Xperia phone with SFOS on it. I don't like "playing" with OS on a phone :p09:28
M4rtinKIMHO it would be unfortunate if existing owners would be excluded09:28
c_la_phonehi I am joining, sort of, now09:28
M4rtinKalso I can imagine places where Jolla might have issues to ship to but where people can get the device using normal distribution channels09:29
jlassilaWe should have answers relatively soon, so I'd not run to a store today. Of course up to you.09:29
M4rtinKso if possible both pre-flashed devices & installation on own device would be nice :)09:29
Jaymzz_#info Answer: We should have answers relatively soon, so I'd not run to a store today. Of course up to you.09:30
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Jaymzz_Alright guys, time is almost up for this topic, if you have more questions, let's move them to the next meeting please, as we will hve clearer answers (hopefully) by then.09:30
jwalckjlassila: thanks, I'll keep my happy trigger finger in check then!09:31
Jaymzz_I'm moving to the next topic in a few seconds,09:31
c_la_phoneI would like to buy an Xperia with SFOS but also be able to install it on Xperia android phones because Xperia is sometimes discounted in brick-and-mortar stores or online09:31
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Jaymzz_#topic Update PyOtherSide in Sailfish OS (10 min) Asked by M4tinK09:31
*** merbot changes topic to "Update PyOtherSide in Sailfish OS (10 min) Asked by M4tinK (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, Open Source, Collaboration 22nd of March 2017)"09:31
c_la_phoneJaymzz_: why has the discussion been shortened that much?09:31
Drummer12_sounds good!09:31
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Jaymzz_#info The PyOtherSide library, which makes it possible to write powerful Python + QtQuick applications, is stuck on version 1.4 on Sailfish OS. This version has some serious bugs that have since been fixed in newer versions & is missing many useful features provided by newer releases.The latest PyOtherSide stable release is 1.5.1 and I've prepared a merge request for updating to this version for the Mer core pyotherside package (09:32
Jaymzz_https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/pyotherside/merge_requests/2 ) As the PyOtherSide library keeps as stable API, has good test coverage & my testing has not uncovered any issues I think there should not be anything preventing the merge request from being merged by the Mer pyotherside package maintainer.So I'd like to formally ask for the merge request to be merged. I would also like to know how long will it approximately take for09:32
Jaymzz_the updated package to land in Sailfish OS release, so that Python application developers can start benefiting from the bug fixes and new features09:32
Jaymzz_#link https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/pyotherside/merge_requests/209:32
Jaymzz_c_la_phone: Sorry, you weren't present in the beginning. Basically it was requested by sailors who want to do their work. It would make the meeting extremely long and since we want to have clearer answers for you guys, we said that we can continue the discussion during the next meeting09:33
c_la_phoneJaymzz_: thanks ;)09:33
Jaymzz_c_la_phone: Most of the key TJC questions are answered. If any of you guys have more questions, you can either ask it in general discussion later on or next meeting :) Thanks for understanding09:34
Jaymzz_Now, let's get to the next topic for real!09:34
Jaymzz_It had a long info section so I'll give it 15 minutes instead of 10 if needed.09:34
veskuhWe don’t at the moment have an active mainteiner for the PyOtherSide09:35
Jaymzz_#info We don’t at the moment have an active mainteiner for the PyOtherSide09:35
c_la_phonemay I suggest to keep it a sticky topic at each meeting? "updates on Xperia project" Jaymzz_09:35
veskuhsledges: Who would be best to go through the PR ? I suppose we’d need to test bunch of store apps since thats the main usecase09:36
Jaymzz_c_la_phone: Let's bring it back up during general discussion :) It'll clog up this topic unnecessarily :)09:36
pavi[m]c_la_phone:  Please stick to topic, which is pyotherside.09:36
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c_la_phoneJaymzz_: pavi[m] : Alright, although I likely will be busy during general discussion09:37
sledgesveskuh: i could ping thp to have a src lookover, and maybe community could help testing store apps?09:37
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veskuhsledges: yeah that would be great, and perhaps martyone could check the harbour validator script in sdk09:39
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sledgeswe can contact harbour developers who have submitted .py apps09:39
pketoI can probably pull up a list of store apps that require pyotherside09:39
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sledgespketo: would that be doable^?09:39
sledges:D ..think alike!09:39
M4rtinKI'm there now09:40
M4rtinKso basically09:40
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M4rtinKcan someone merge it ? :)09:40
M4rtinKor is there something else that needs to be done ?09:41
Jaymzz_#action pketo to check for pyotherside apps on harbour09:41
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M4rtinKis a missing maintainer an issue ? it at least seems that most Mer/Sailfish OS packages don't have one09:42
Jaymzz_5 minutes left09:44
veskuhM4rtinK: Since this is 3rd party API would be good to have someone familiar with the matter to check the things discussed09:44
M4rtinKin any case I'm standing by if any help I can provide is needed09:44
M4rtinKveskuh: OK09:44
Jaymzz_#info Since this is 3rd party API would be good to have someone familiar with the matter to check the things discussed09:44
veskuhM4rtinK:  Yeah, this is good contribution and I think we should be able to get this in 2.1.209:45
M4rtinKveskuh: cool, that would be very welcome!09:45
Jaymzz_#info This is good contribution and I think we should be able to get this in 2.1.209:45
Jaymzz_M4rtinK: I think we can move on then, do you? :)09:45
M4rtinKJaymzz_: sure :)09:46
Jaymzz_Alrighty, 10 minutes was indeed enough ;) Moving on09:46
Jaymzz_#topic Clarify and cleanup of Wiki's (20 min) Asked by pavi[m]09:46
*** merbot changes topic to "Clarify and cleanup of Wiki's (20 min) Asked by pavi[m] (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, Open Source, Collaboration 22nd of March 2017)"09:46
Jaymzz_#info We have currently 2 Wikis, one is at https://wiki.merproject.org/ and the other is at https://sailfishos.org/wiki/ . This issue concerns the visiblity of three projects SailfishOS, Mer and Nemo. The three are related to Mer but the information in the wiki is 1. Too confusing. 2. Repeated, 3. Ambiguous, 4. Written in wrong place, 5. Outdated. I hope some time is spent to discuss these issues.09:46
Jaymzz_#link  https://wiki.merproject.org/09:47
pavi[m]Yay I am actually here to ask my question. Ping locusf09:47
Jaymzz_#link https://sailfishos.org/wiki/09:47
locusfyep09:47
Jaymzz_20 minutes starts now! Go go09:47
pavi[m]So please shall we have proper seperation of wikis to start with?09:48
pavi[m]Next one is will the SFOS wiki be opened up?09:48
M4rtinKpavi[m]: +109:48
pavi[m]Jaymzz:  who in Jolla would take care of wikis?09:49
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Jaymzz_pavi[m]: It's a wiki, there isn't one person who takes care of it, naturally :)09:51
Jaymzz_Everyone contributes in their own area pavi[m]09:51
pketoWe haven't had the time to work on opening up the Sailfish OS wiki. So at the moment there is no estimate on when that would happen09:51
pavi[m]Jaymzz:  Yes and it applies to mer wiki. Sailfish wiki is not accessible for external people.09:51
pavi[m]pketo_:  Lot of information could be added to the SFOS wiki especially regarding app development.09:52
veskuhTarget is to open it up for community, but we haven’t had time to proceed with that, and schedule is still looking like it will not change during short term.09:52
Jaymzz_#info Target is to open it up for community, but we haven’t had time to proceed with that, and schedule is still looking like it will not change during short term.09:52
pavi[m]There are many apps written by community people which are opensource. All of them can be added to the existing SFOS tutorials.09:53
pavi[m]If the wiki is opened up it makes it easy for community to contribute to those tutorial pages.09:53
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M4rtinKmaybe there content & fixes could be submitted by mail or something for now ?09:53
sledgesthat's how it's done for e.g. language style guides09:54
M4rtinKeq. wiki_update@jolla.com, you send new articles as rst files or something09:54
sledgesin l10n area09:54
M4rtinKor corrections09:54
pavi[m]Yes veskuh  as M4rtinK  says can we atleast mail articles for inclusion?09:54
veskuhpavi[m]: Hmm.. That’s interesting proposal. Would separate mail box be good for this or just using developer mailing list for proposals?09:55
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pavi[m]veskuh:  a seperate mail would probably not scare the newbies. I am happy with both.09:56
stephgo/ (sorry I'm late)09:56
Jaymzz_stephg: \o Welcome :)09:57
M4rtinKIn any case even just for error corrections it would be good09:58
pavi[m]veskuh:  Ideal wiki contributors are documentation writers. They can help with lot of missing documentation. I hope the wiki is opened up in future soon.09:58
M4rtinKI guess it could have some sort of review queue even once opened up09:59
M4rtinKI would imagine wikis have functionality like that09:59
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M4rtinKbut the email based solution should work right now09:59
pavi[m]M4rtinK:  I agree10:00
Jaymzz_on a relatively related note, we have around 5 minutes left, let's wrap this up. So, a separate email it is? :) or what?10:01
pavi[m]locusf:  anything to add about nemo wiki?10:01
veskuhThis sounds like something we can try. I think next step would be that we agree in Jolla the responsibilites and announce in the mailin list once we have mail address and process in place.10:01
locusfpavi: nope, since any docs related to that are more suitable for mer wiki10:01
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locusfnemo being now just a ui extension right now10:02
pavi[m]veskuh:  thanks for that and Jaymzz  we can wrap it up. :)10:02
locusfall middleware + core system is mer10:02
Jaymzz_Alright! moving on in a moment pavi[m]10:03
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Jaymzz_#topic Nemo Mobile as community distribution for SailfishOS (60 min) Asked by locusf10:03
*** merbot changes topic to "Nemo Mobile as community distribution for SailfishOS (60 min) Asked by locusf (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, Open Source, Collaboration 22nd of March 2017)"10:03
Jaymzz_#info After giving this some thought, about what was discussed at the previous Jolla community meeting at FOSDEM, I've come up with an idea on how Nemo Mobile can make use of the open source efforts of Jolla. It would be quite useful to have mer feeding off of Fedora packages with the newest versions of stuff and co-maintaining the middleware update effort with Fedora community.But about how Fedora and Red Hat are related, I'd like10:03
Jaymzz_to propose an extension to Oleg's idea which relates to this, so that Nemo Mobile could be to Sailfish OS what Fedora is to Red Hat. I know its an old idea I once before proposed. but now that the open source effort from SailfishOS is apparently closing in, it would make sense to have Nemo not (necessarily) with its open UX for Glacier but rather as a community based bleeding edge testing environment for SailfishOS. Which is (at10:03
Jaymzz_least how I have understood it) like what Fedora is doing with Red Hat distribution.10:03
locusfokay10:04
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locusfso as previously noted eg. in the PyOtherside situation, it seems that something like this would be needed in order to properly test any upstream mer changes somehow10:04
pavi[m]Really good idea locusf  if jolla is happy with it.10:04
locusfand I know that Jolla is really busy with just about all things MWC so I don't expect this to be possible right now10:05
locusfbut to get the discussion started and possible future roadmap for both Sailfish and Nemo10:06
chriadam_what does this mean in practice?10:06
locusfall adaptations which run sailfish, can run nemo as well10:06
r0kk3rzlocusf: how is this different to the ported version of sailfish, provided silica gets opened?10:06
r0kk3rzthen you have full foss sfos, and then the commercial + proprietary side10:07
locusfso using existing devices as basis for testing environment for volunteers, the packages would be based on upstream mer10:07
locusfr0kk3rz: there then is nothing too much different to it then10:07
locusfnemo has just the ui components + its own apps on top10:07
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locusfalso for sailfish apps, provided that they're open sourced, this would enhance community flavor of sailfish to allow some volunteers run the latest changes on their apps and provide feedback10:08
locusffor nemo however, the middleware is same for its apps, so making this quite separate effort then10:09
locusfnemo would, <with its own apps, provide a testing environment for changes in sailfish middleware10:10
locusfok I'm done for further detailing :)10:10
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veskuhThere would be a lot of value for Sailfish if would be getting more early testing of major changes so we can maturize them quicker.10:11
locusfindeed10:12
veskuhWhat kind of support would be needed from Jolla?10:12
pavi[m]Something like how Redhat supports fedora? ;)10:13
locusfcollaboration for making the switch between EA -> Nemo testing possible, although its not necessarily needed10:14
locusfgiven that the adaptation layer for Jollas devices is the sameish10:14
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locusfeg. mic should make lvm images, which upstream mic doesn't support right now10:14
locusferm upstream -> mer:core10:14
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r0kk3rzor even pre EA, bleeding edge stuff provided that doesnt violate any NDAs .etc10:14
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locusfyes10:15
locusfalthough I'm not sure how it applies to middleware stuff, it could of course10:15
nh1402what happened to this part of the question "It would be quite useful to have mer feeding off of Fedora packages with the newest versions of stuff and co-maintaining the middleware update effort with Fedora community"10:15
locusfyes I forgot about that :D10:16
M4rtinKthat's IMHO a very good point10:16
locusfit wasn't originally my question, it was posed at FOSDEM meeting as a separate comment10:16
M4rtinKcouldn't the packaging efforts of Fedora and other distros be reused ?10:17
locusfI know that mer as jolla uses it, is quite prone to being old at some point10:17
M4rtinKwhat's so special about Mer packaging that it warrants all the special effort ?10:17
chriadam_personal opinion: anything which imposes a requirement on internal packages is unlikely to work in practice (e.g., if you update some package, which results in BIC/SIC changes, and we depend on the old library internally...)10:17
locusfso partially migrating to fedoras packages, where applicable, could it be viable?10:17
chriadam_more generally, I guess lbt and larstiq would have input on this idea10:18
* lbt pops in10:19
M4rtinKin general it seems like a lot of works is spent on maintaining outdated versions of packages in a very small number of people10:20
M4rtinKgenerally resulting in outdated, buggy and unpatched packages10:20
pavi[m]M4rtinK:  +110:20
veskuhProblem with using large part of desktop distro is that they are optimized for different use cases, newer kernel, different toolchain, desktop and server usecases etc.10:20
lbt+110:20
Jaymzz_#info Problem with using large part of desktop distro is that they are optimized for different use cases, newer kernel, different toolchain, desktop and server usecases etc.10:21
M4rtinKwhile there is a substantially larger number of people (Fedora, etc.) maintaining the same packages, which are generally in a much better shape10:21
locusfeven with some core packages?10:21
* kimmoli late10:21
lbtI was going to say. It is worth keeping an eye on places like fedora for patches to upstream sources but I think ultimately we need maintainers to monitor their upstreams10:21
M4rtinKveskuh: that's what I'm not sure applies anymore these days10:21
lbtso packaging is not something we can usefully take - it's been discussed for years and never makes sense10:22
M4rtinKat least in Fedora many of the packages are used in the Server edition, in minimal container images, on arm boards acting as servers, etc.10:22
lbtthe one thing that we can do is use it a useful bootstrap for mer packaging10:22
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M4rtinKit's hardly just a desktop centered distro these days10:23
lbtM4rtinK: so if we differentiate between packaging and src patches then I think we have more agreement10:23
locusfwhich also what you're currently doing?10:23
veskuhM4rtinK: Yeah, situation may be changing, but like lbt says our previous experience is saying that there would be problems. In anycase examining the current situation in more details might be a big effort.10:24
lbtmer now has a 'mirror' git repo area which continually mirrors upstream git. It would not be unreasonable to add remotes for fedora if they existed - but that would be down to mer-core maintainers to decide10:24
sledgesrun a mer:next and user it as playground? then cherry pick mature+tested packages of newer versions into mer:core ?10:24
M4rtinKactually, even though that's rather extreme, I've been wondering what's the practical difference between Fedora/CentOS with the Mer middleware and Sailfish OS/Nemo UI on top ?10:24
lbtsledges: that is doable - one problem in the mer-core git is that our packages all use 'random' branches to build from10:25
M4rtinKis Mer really that better & worth the effort to maintain vs productizing an existing distro a bit ?10:25
locusfsledges: +110:25
sledgeslbt: have one more branch! :D (mer-next)10:26
lbtit would make a lot of sense to standardise on mer:core/master and mer:next/master if we wanted to do that10:26
lbtie start to use namespaced tags (which is something we've looked at recently (larstiq and I))10:26
sledgesah ok10:26
lbtlots of discussion needed10:27
lbtit also allows for partners to have <partner>/master ...10:27
sledgesright ^-^10:27
lbtnemo/master10:27
locusfyes I figured that this issue is exceedingly nontrivial to be handled even in 60 minutes of conversation :)10:27
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r0kk3rzM4rtinK: especially since we've seen a mer/nemo ish toolchain built off Open Embedded, but anyway10:29
lbthow about builds of mer:<feature> ?? eg mer:pyotherside_MB331110:29
lbtwhere there's a specific bug stating a specific goal of that branch10:29
lbteg to test x y z and get pyotherside merged into mer:core10:29
lbtveskuh: would that be useful in other collaborative situations10:30
veskuhlbt: I’d imagine similiar situations would be happening more often when we have more active partners.10:31
sledgesto note: OBS feature project is very useful as it underlays all existing mer-core under your specific updated package(s), without the need to branch or do millions of copypac10:31
sledgesand rebuilds them all if they depend on your package(s)10:31
lbt*nod* ... may be ask if it is worth investing in some evaluation with the community on this specific topic (pyotherside)10:32
lbtsledges: yes10:32
sledgesor a toolchain upgrade for that matter10:32
lbtveskuh: that way we can be ready when that need arises10:32
jwalckI have to drop off somewhat, but I can just concur that this indeed sounds like a path forward. Thanks for bringing it up locusf!10:32
M4rtinKI'd like to note that package updates should be much easier to do than they are now10:32
locusfjwalck: np :)10:32
sledgesmer:next is good idea, but runs a risk of diverging too far from mer:core, and then cherry-picking becomes nightmare10:33
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M4rtinKit's not really documented in detail anywhere10:33
lbtsledges: mer:next is way too vague IMHO10:33
sledgesyep, too much of a playground:)10:33
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lbtI don't think we should do that again - it's OK for jolla to have a release-driven mer:devel type thing as that gateways into mer:core but it's highly managed10:33
M4rtinKand I don't think I would be able to do all the needed things without having Fedora/RHEL packaging experience10:33
M4rtinKnot to mention that the merge request has been apparently ignored until being mentioned at a meeting10:34
lbtM4rtinK: we have no maintainer10:34
lbtthere is no-one there to listen :/10:34
M4rtinKI don't imagine many others willing to got through all that10:34
lbtM4rtinK: it's a volunteer thing - if no-one volunteers it doesn't get done.10:35
M4rtinKwell, we have a simple solution for such packages in Fedora - they get orphaned & removed from the distro ;-)10:35
M4rtinKproblem solved :)10:35
lbtM4rtinK: yes - that is something we should consider10:35
M4rtinKbut I guess the problem that the maintainer basically has to be a Jolla employee ?10:36
lbtwe at least have a Maintainer system now - it's growing10:36
M4rtinK& AFAIK not documented anywhere in the contribution docs on sailfish os wiki ;-)10:36
lbtno - but they do have to talk to the other Maintainers and jolla obviously employ a  lot of them10:36
M4rtinKwell, could I become the maintainer of PyOtherSide in Mer then ? ;-)10:37
lbtI see no real issue in having pyotherside maintained outside jolla - you just need to identify what other systems depend on it and collaborate with them10:37
M4rtinKI do maintain it in Fedora already10:37
lbtM4rtinK: I think that's a reasonable request10:38
lbtMer obviously cares about downstream a huge amount10:38
lbtso you'd have to talk to downstream (jolla) about things like the Store10:39
M4rtinKyeah10:39
lbtthat is probably the biggest immediate stumbling block to saying "just do it"10:39
M4rtinKI think it's not really apparent how this should work but I think things can be worked out10:39
lbtveskuh: would you agree with all ^^ ? any comments ?10:39
veskuhYeah, in general I agree. And we discussed about the pyotherside update already earlier. If that goes fine, we know the process how the udpates for that would work and M4rtinK would be good maintainer.10:40
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veskuhAnd obviously also do agree the points that process should be easier and documented better10:41
pavi[m]The point about mer caring about downstream should be put in "info"10:42
lbt*nod* Maintainers have a huge responsibility for talking to downstream (even if they're a bit non-responsive sometimes!!!)10:43
locusfFYI: I don't mind this getting sidetracked to PyOtherside :)10:43
lbthaha10:43
M4rtinKthis is probably another side effect of Mer/Sailfish OS basically combining a community & enterprise distro into one10:43
Jaymzz_#info If pyotherside update goes fine, we will know the process for how the updates will be handled. M4tinK would be a good maintainer. the process should be easier and documented better.10:43
lbtsubtle - and a good point locusf - lets link it back too10:44
M4rtinKbut that's what we have now and have to work with it :)10:44
lbtlocusf: I think mer:next is a bad idea - but mer:nemo is probably a good idea10:44
lbtand locusf you could accept pyotherside into mer:nemo with a lot less risk10:44
locusfthis is good discussion, if nemo can somehow help with all the community testing (given volunteers) by all means10:45
locusflbt: indeed I agree10:45
lbtthat would work if mer:nemo was kept as close as possible to mer:core for jolla10:45
lbtso nemo would have to have quite a conservative view10:45
lbt(well, it would if it were to be useful in that respect which is I think what's being suggested)10:46
locusfconservative meaning being close to mer:core but still admissioning patches for upstream updates to some degree?10:48
lbtlocusf: yes - and having "be a realistic early adoption model for sfos" as a goal10:48
* M4rtinK_phone_ is switching to phone now10:49
sledgesif it becomes not conservative enough, we might hit chriadam_'s problem (Requires directives in .spec files)10:49
lbtsledges: and also if nemo starts replacing lipstick etc etc... then that's just not going to happen10:49
lbtso it has to be something that sfos direction wants to use as a trial area10:50
locusf_it seems that matrix lags behind quite a lot so I'll cchange to this nick10:50
Jaymzz_Just a heads up, there is less than 15 minutes left of the proposed 60 minutes.10:50
locusf_lbt: +110:51
lbtI think we need some input from jolla on that goal too - but maybe the community should produce a proposal to allow discussion around it?10:51
sledgesand what if community wants a bleeding edge option of many packages, e.g. mer:breakthingstomakethings ?10:52
M4rtinK_phone_BTW, if stuff like Flatpak happens for app distribution10:52
M4rtinK_phone_this all should become quite a bit easier10:52
lbtsledges: then that's not nemo ??10:52
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lbtsledges: I think that goal is just not compatible - there'd have to be a new project. I think in many ways that's what nemo used to be10:53
lbtbut overall lack of resource means it isn't viable (yet)10:54
lbtthis way we bring community contributions back to SFOS and re-kindle jolla's community presence too10:54
pavi[m]Its really an important topic. Put in TJC as wiki post?10:54
lbtnb this all depends on open sourcing progress too ....10:55
sledgesyes, and even such things like toolchain upgrade could be achieved via mer:nemo10:55
sledges(via mer:<feature> as stage 1?)10:55
* lbt looks at mer:core:gcc53 and mer:core:gcc61 too10:55
lbtI almost said that 2 mins ago - hence in cut buffer :D :D10:55
sledgesaha!10:56
sledges#link https://build.merproject.org/package/show/mer:core:gcc53/gcc510:56
sledgesto track progress ;) well done abranson!10:57
Jaymzz_8 minutes remaining :)10:57
lbtso ... any actions ?10:58
sledgescreate mer:nemo? :)10:58
sledgesi wonder if it could be created as feature project (linked to mer:core)10:59
lbtsledges: I'd like to see a proposal first10:59
lbtand discuss naming, goals, bugs etc10:59
sledgeslocusf_: ^10:59
abransonsledges: yeah didn't get very far with that as yet...10:59
locusf_aye10:59
lbtlocusf_: want to take the action to pull up a proposal11:00
locusf_lbt: yes11:00
Jaymzz_5 minutes :) Are we wrapped up...almost? :D11:00
locusf_#action locusf to create proposal for further discussion leading to nemo being as staging for sailfish11:01
lbt#action locusf_ to pull together a proposal to cover mer:nemo (tbc), feature projects/bugs and the goal of nemo in supporting sfos. Eventually to be reviewed and responded to by Jolla management.11:01
locusf_heh11:01
Jaymzz_that was cool :D11:01
pavi[m]Jaymzz:  announcement?11:02
sledgesabranson: important is to make the first step;)11:02
* lbt drops a side-action on jolla too ;)11:02
Jaymzz_locusf_: So do you think we are ready to move on? :)11:02
locusf_Jaymzz_: yes11:02
Jaymzz_Awesome! Great discussion there guys :)11:02
Jaymzz_#topic General discussion (15 min)11:03
*** merbot changes topic to "General discussion (15 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, Open Source, Collaboration 22nd of March 2017)"11:03
pavi[m]When is Jala phone coming up?11:03
Jaymzz_So, does anyone think we should make Xperia discussion that we had today a pinned topic for future meetings as c-la_ was  proposing?11:04
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c-la_Jaymzz_: me ?11:05
nh1402NFC support in Sailfish, Sony now being a partner of sorts with Jolla and also being one of the founding members of the NFC forum along with NXP and Nokia I believe, and a large quantity of ported devices supporting it. Shouldn't it be about time that it's supported in Sailfish?11:05
kimmoliyes11:05
c-la_Jaymzz_: thanks for pinging11:05
pavi[m]Coming to Xperia question. Will the camera in SFOS be as good as the Android one?11:06
Jaymzz_c-la_: Yeah wasn't it you who proposed this up there? or am I mistaken?11:06
pavi[m]Jaymzz:  it was him dont worry11:06
c-la_Jaymzz_: yes I proposed it11:07
c-la_:)11:07
Jaymzz_pavi[m]: So as Veskuh said above during the discussion, "For the camera, we cannot yet promise that all the features of the camera are supported, but we are working on it and we think that we are going to get great quality pictures out of the camera."11:08
veskuhpavi[m]: At the moment Jala schedule looks like 2H/201711:08
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pavi[m]Ahh nice.11:09
Jaymzz_c-la_: I can make the Xperia topic a pinned one by the end of each meeting just like general discussion and depending on how much news we are going to have regaridng the topic, I can give it duration accordingly. If we had nothing new to provide, I can simply say in my reminder email that we won't be talking about it. What do you say?11:10
veskuhpavi[m]: For the Sony camera app on Android they have bunch of stuff like filters, effects etc in there. Those we don’t have. For the camera driver, we are not yet 100% what we can have fully supported, but in anycase the picture quality is far better than what we’ve had before.11:10
r0kk3rzJaymzz_: no need to make it pinned, im sure there will be announcements and blog posts about it anyway :)11:11
pavi[m]veskuh:  yeah I was exactly asking about it. Also sony uses lot of propreitary optimisations to make the picture look better. Will the opensource project get them?11:11
c-la_Jaymzz_: fine for me, thanks11:11
nh1402what about the NFC situation, I would like to pass through NFC for sfdroid uses.11:11
Jaymzz_r0kk3rz: Alright as you wish, so in that case, if anyone had extra questions, just make a 5-10 min topic and ask it here or ask it on the blog.11:11
Jaymzz_c-la_: Which one is fine for you? The one I said or r0kk3rz?11:12
r0kk3rzveskuh: sony also have some rather good image processing algorithms that they wipe off the phone when you unlock the bootloader. it would be awesome to get those :)11:12
r0kk3rzbut thats a rather big wish11:12
veskuhpavi[m]: r0kk3rz Yeah, we’re aware of these, I don’t have more details I can say at this point.11:12
nh1402r0kk3rz: I've found most other phones with Sony sensors have better image quality than Sony themselves11:12
c-la_Jaymzz_: yours, but either is fine in the end11:13
pavi[m]r0kk3rz:  Yeah was asking about those image processing algorithms. So we wont be getting them I guess in opensource project of Sony.11:13
r0kk3rznh1402: the sensor is only one small part of the equation11:13
Jaymzz_c-la_: Alright, r0kk3rz' solution was more practical. In case anyone has extra questions, ask it. And of course, we will do our best to keep you updated on the progress.11:14
c-la_+111:14
r0kk3rzJaymzz_: blog post interview with Alin Jerplea kgo!11:14
Jaymzz_r0kk3rz: That might be a very interesting idea actually! I'll get in touch to see if we can take this further! Thanks for the idea11:16
pavi[m]Is there a plan to improve the app gap situation. Can jolla afford to organise app devel workshops?11:16
nh1402Jaymzz_: i have11:17
sledgesnh1402: sfdroid should just use android's guts for NFC11:17
Jaymzz_nh1402: What do you have mate?11:17
Jaymzz_#action Jaymzz to discuss some collaboration possibilities with Alin Jerplea11:18
Jaymzz_we have about a minute left guys11:19
sledgespavi[m]: Maemi Regatta brought awesome apps11:19
Jaymzz_gonna move on soon11:19
sledges*Maemo11:19
eekkelundYay11:19
sledgesthe winner himself^ ;)11:19
pavi[m]sledges:  I agree Maemo regatta is cool. Is there a chance of Jolla replicating it in larger scale?11:20
nh1402Jaymzz_: native NFC support in Sailfish11:20
veskuhpavi[m]: I think this was discussed in the last community meeting as well. There is couple of things going on 1) OMP is promoting Sailfish development in russia 2) New devices will help  - Jala, inoi, Xperia 3) New china partner will hopefully promote similarly in china11:20
pavi[m]Jolla official tweeted about Maemo Regatta. But something more official so that russian devs and others get to participate. We also have latin america phone coming up.11:20
Jaymzz_Veskuh can you answer the NFC question by nh1402 please? :)11:20
M4rtinK_phone_sign me in for another competition! :-)11:21
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pavi[m]veskuh:  New devices will get new users but before the devices get released a nice workshop or something in target country and its apps would be cool.11:21
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sledgesM4rtinK_phone_: what prize would make you interested?;)11:21
nh1402Sony now being a partner, and one of the first to bring NFC, I thought it would be about time Sailfish supports it at natively, or at the very least for the Xperia devices.11:22
* M4rtinK_phone_ = app updates category 2nd place11:22
Jaymzz_Just FYI I'm giving extra time to this topic in order to get all the questions answered11:22
M4rtinK_phone_nh1402: Sailfish OS running Xperia would be nice :)11:23
M4rtinK_phone_would have use for that ;-)11:23
Jaymzz_#info There is couple of things going on 1) OMP is promoting Sailfish development in russia 2) New devices will help  - Jala, inoi, Xperia 3) New china partner will hopefully promote similarly in china11:23
nh1402I don't like the fact that out of all the sensors and camera's and stuff, the one thing that still isn't supported is NFC11:23
nh1402Another thing to note is dual cameras are starting to become a thing, how are Jolla going to handle that?11:24
sledges#info The question to the above answer was: Is there a plan to improve the app gap situation. Can jolla afford to organise app devel workshops?11:25
veskuhProper NFC support with useful set of usecases is still a roadmap item and I can’t promise a schedule for it at this point.11:25
r0kk3rznh1402: what would you want to do with it?11:25
Jaymzz_#info Question about NFC situation for Xperia devices and Sailfish OS in general11:26
nh1402r0kk3rz: I would like to try and get NFC payment apps working in sfdroid11:26
veskuhHaving simple HW enabler is smaller item, but things like audio routing, payment, support in Dalvik are bigger items.11:26
Jaymzz_#info Answer: Proper NFC support with useful set of usecases is still a roadmap item and I can’t promise a schedule for it at this point.11:26
Jaymzz_#info Having simple HW enabler is smaller item, but things like audio routing, payment, support in Dalvik are bigger items.11:26
sledgesnh1402: can you not simply use android's nfc mw for that?11:27
sledgesin sfdroid's context11:27
sledgesno need for sfos to be aware of it11:27
nh1402also basic things, like reading a tag to snooze/dismiss alarms, IoT related things and what have you.11:27
nh1402sledges: I could but if everything else is being passed through from Sailfish, its best if everything is.11:27
sledgesnfc is being passed from actual nfc tag (hw)11:27
r0kk3rzwrapping the android nfc interface to the qt one should be straight forward11:28
pavi[m]nh1402:  Yeah good ideas with NFC. Lets hope it gets supported.11:28
Jaymzz_Alright guys we are way over time now, let's make NFC a new topic for the next meeting, okay? nh140211:28
sledgeswith separate usecases: sfdroid, aliendalvik, sfos (no apps in sfos case?)11:29
r0kk3rzsledges: build it and they will come!11:29
r0kk3rzyou can do some coolish things with just ndef text record tags for instance11:29
sledgesi've enlisted in the order of the lowest hanging fruits;)11:30
Jaymzz_I'm going to move on in less than a minute, I think this deserves its own topic and should be proposed for the next meeting.11:30
nh1402Jaymzz_: no need really, veskuh answered already, but if people want to discuss in more detail in the next meeting, sure.11:30
Jaymzz_Alright let's see then :)11:30
Jaymzz_Moving on11:30
Jaymzz_#topic Next meeting time and date (5min)11:30
*** merbot changes topic to "Next meeting time and date (5min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, Open Source, Collaboration 22nd of March 2017)"11:30
Jaymzz_I propose Wednesday 5th of April, 09:00 UTC. Votes?11:31
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Jaymzz_Right, seriously, anyone? :D11:32
veskuhok for me11:32
nh1402I'm not sure which way to take the silence, is that a unanimous agreement or disagreement11:32
r0kk3rzmake it so11:32
sledgessilence means consent11:32
nh1402I see it that way but not to everyone11:33
r0kk3rzspeak now or forever hold your peace11:33
Jaymzz_Alright I'll take it as consent then ;)11:33
nh14022 weeks on Wednesday it is then, providing there are enough topics.11:33
Jaymzz_#info Next meeting will be held on 5th of April 2017 at 09:00 UTC11:33
Jaymzz_nh1402: I'll hold the meeting anyway in case anyone wants to discuss. I'll try my best not to postpone meetings anymore to keep engaging with the community, thanks to LarstiQ11:34
pavi[m]Thank your everyone. I enjoyed the conversation. Its the first time I asked my topic 😃11:34
Jaymzz_So it is conformed guys, thank you everyone for this long and productive conversation! Meeting minutes will be sent to you via email. Take care and bye for now.11:35
r0kk3rznh1402: good news, with the qt5.6 upgrade we get qtnfc api, which supports this backend https://01.org/linux-nfchttps://01.org/linux-nfc11:35
veskuhthanks11:35
Jaymzz_#endmeeting11:35
merbotMeeting ended Wed Mar 22 11:35:32 2017 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings . (v 0.1.4)11:35
merbotMinutes:        http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2017/mer-meeting.2017-03-22-09.00.html11:35
merbotMinutes (text): http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2017/mer-meeting.2017-03-22-09.00.txt11:35
merbotLog:            http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2017/mer-meeting.2017-03-22-09.00.log.html11:35
*** merbot changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Wednesday March 22nd 2017 on 09:00 UTC. Topics can be created here: https://together.jolla.com/question/54157/sailfishos-open-source-collaboration-meeting-planning/"11:35
r0kk3rzmake backend work, and hey presto11:35
jwalckI was too late but yeah 5/4 is ok.:)11:35
*** Jaymzz_ changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Wednesday April 5th 2017 at 09:00 UTC. Topics can be created here: https://together.jolla.com/question/54157/sailfishos-open-source-collaboration-meeting-planning/"11:36
eekkelundThanks guys :)11:36
pavi[m]eekkelund:  you were here. So silent?11:37
pavi[m]Sorry guys I joined late and asked some questions which were already discussed.11:37
nh1402r0kk3rz: that's a dead link11:37
sledgesdoubled11:38
r0kk3rznh1402: no its not, i just borked it :)11:38
nh1402my bad, you had it twice11:38
nh1402r0kk3rz: would you say to add it as a topic for the next meeting then, or leave it based on the answer provided by veskuh earlier?11:39
r0kk3rznh1402: like FM support, until a customer pays jolla to put it in i doubt they will look at it. so either you have questions for jolla people about how to go about it then why bother?11:40
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nh1402r0kk3rz: it is a roadmap item, just not scheduled yet.11:41
nh1402I don't believe it was a roadmap item before.11:42
r0kk3rzjust like voip :)11:42
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r0kk3rzanyway, the pieces are there for some pioneering community member to try and stick them together11:42
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Nokius:( missed the meeting14:08
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jwalckNokius: there are logs and next meeting in two weeks, not too far off!14:14
r0kk3rzNokius: you didnt miss that much14:18
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Nokiusr0kk3rz: I read the logs and it was intressting but yeah nothing I could add :)14:25
r0kk3rzim not sure i can ever remember being that silent in a meeting before14:31
r0kk3rzgoing through TJC questions they couldnt answer wasnt very exciting14:32
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phlixi_o#help16:16
phlixi_omerbot help16:16
merbotphlixi_o: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin. You may also want to use the 'list' command to list all available plugins and commands. 16:16
phlixi_ohelp about16:17
phlixi_omerbot help about16:17
merbotphlixi_o: Error: There is no command "about".16:17
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phlixi_omerbot about16:17
merbotphlixi_o: Error: "about" is not a valid command.16:17
phlixi_omeh16:26
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Nokiusr0kk3rz: I assuem the Sony project is still ongoing16:51
Nokiusand Jolla lerned not to set high gols16:52
r0kk3rzNokius: yes it is that was known, but still spending 20-30 min on "we cant answer this yet" for several questions....16:54
Nokius:s16:54
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pavi[m]🔜17:17
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Michaelamerbot: version20:38
merbotMichaela: The current (running) version of this Supybot is 0.83.4.1+limnoria 2015.08.29, running on Python 2.7.3 (default, Jun 21 2016, 18:38:19)  [GCC 4.7.2].  The newest versions available online are 2017.02.25 (in testing), 2017.01.10 (in master).20:38
phlixithanks Michaela :-)20:39
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MichaelaYou're welcome. I used to be affiliated with that project.21:05
phlixii already got to http://meetbot.debian.net/Manual.html#writer-map-configuration and https://github.com/buildbot/meetbot/blob/master/ircmeeting/template.html21:06
phlixi...but i never did anything with github and now i am stuck how to sugest a change in code21:07
phlixithere is a line missing in the "minutes" which bothers me everytime21:07
phlixiand i am to lazy now to starrt reading a 30minutes github for dummies guide or similar21:08
phlixi...there is a '<meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1">' missing between lines 4 and 521:09
phlixibut right now im am tired, so its at least documented here :D21:09
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MichaelaI wonder why they are running meetbot instead of meetingology21:55
tbrMichaela: because "they" set it up, when meetbot was the thing that worked and was available. If there is something better/forked/foo, then you might want to suggest that to them (me) directly.22:12
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