Thursday, 2016-01-28

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toxipyo10:48
JollaTgBotERROR: No chat_id set! Add me to a Telegram group and say hi so I can find your group's chat_id!10:48
JollaTgBot<toxip>: undefined10:48
toxipthat's a problem10:48
JollaTgBot<toxip>: better10:48
toxiptest10:49
toxipeverything is in order. JollaTgBot is one-way.10:49
stephggood stuff10:52
toxipalmost a disaster there... JollaTgBot was returning errors for every message >_<10:52
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pascalsteinMeeting starts in 90 min from now13:00
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pascalsteinImportant: https://blog.jolla.com/jolla-tablet-closure/13:28
pascalsteinNew blog post from Jolla13:28
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lbttoxip: so we use merbot` here - what's JollaTgBot ?13:34
LarstiQlbt: bridge to Telegram13:35
* lbt is not hugely wiser :)13:35
lbthttps://telegram.org/faq ?13:36
Stskeepslbt: a lot of enthusiatic sailfishos users are on a telegram 'channel'13:36
lbtok - that's fine - just checking :)13:37
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pascalsteinAs stated in the blog: Ship remaining Tablets to Indiegogo backers: we will ship 540 units as soon as we can starting from February13:41
pascalsteinPity there are not more of them available...13:41
pascalsteinWith the already shipped 121 units, it will be a total of only 661 available in the world...13:42
pascalsteinHope to see more Tablet suppliers join Sailfish OS...13:42
pascalsteinMore details: https://blog.jolla.com/jolla-tablet-closure/13:42
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stephgpascalstein: thanks, will add that to the minutes when the meeting starts14:03
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pascalsteinMeeting starts in 15 min from now14:16
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tortoisedocpascalstein : you moderator?14:22
pascalsteinNo, sorry, just excited14:22
tortoisedoc:D14:22
tortoisedocwho is the moderator?14:22
daitheflutortoisedoc: stephg will chair14:23
pascalsteinstephg is running the meeting14:23
tortoisedocdaitheflu: thanks14:23
stephgjaja14:23
tortoisedocstephg : whats the bullet point list like? Would it be possible to handle the mer things first? they are probably small14:23
tortoisedocand require less time than other topics14:24
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stephghttps://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2016-January/006903.html14:24
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tortoisedocstephg  : okay, for the abovementioned reasons, I'd suggest to move the mer-related topics to be processed first. That possible?14:25
stephgunless you're short of time I'd rather keep it how it is14:25
tortoisedocim sorta short of time as well unfortunately14:25
stephgfair enough14:25
tortoisedocthey will be short14:25
stephgok14:25
tortoisedocmy word on that ;)14:25
stephgno prob14:26
sledgeso/14:26
stephg¬o>14:27
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kimmoli#info joko?14:28
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tortoisedoc#info tortoisedoc developer14:29
lbtdoesn't stephg need to startmeeting ?14:29
tortoisedocdang14:29
lbtbefore info works :)14:29
stephgit's not halfpast yet :)14:29
pascalstein1 min :)14:29
lbtyeah14:29
lbtjust for kimmoli and tortoisedoc :)14:29
stephg#startmeeting SailfishOS, open source, collaboration 28th of January 201614:30
merbot`Meeting started Thu Jan 28 14:30:08 2016 UTC.  The chair is stephg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings.14:30
merbot`Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.14:30
*** merbot` changes topic to " (Meeting topic: SailfishOS, open source, collaboration 28th of January 2016)"14:30
tortoisedoclbt i recall you inquiring about merbot before too :P14:30
stephg#info Happy Data Protection Day and welcome to the second SailfishOS OSS and collaboration meeting of 201614:30
stephg#info Meeting information and agenda can be found here: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2016-January/006903.html14:30
tortoisedoc#info tortoisedoc hello world developer14:30
stephgI'm the meeting chair today and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please behave, be gentle and show due respect.14:30
stephgWe have a few things to get through today so please lets not stray from the topics too much14:30
stephg#topic Brief introduction (5 minutes), please prefix your name/handle with #info14:30
*** merbot` changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 minutes), please prefix your name/handle with #info (Meeting topic: SailfishOS, open source, collaboration 28th of January 2016)"14:30
stephginfo away!14:30
stephg:D14:30
kimmoli#info Kimmo Lindholm, community, wannabe porter, tohs et al14:30
tortoisedocduh14:30
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kimmolitortoisedoc: triggerhappy?14:30
tortoisedoc#info tortoisedoc hello world developer14:31
lbt#info David Greaves, Sailor and Mer guy14:31
stephg#info Steph Gosling, community, also wannabe porter14:31
tortoisedockimmoli : nah, typing tourette14:31
elfio#info elfio, sailfishOS fan14:31
Munnu#info Munnu Jolla enthuatist, wannabe developer14:31
JvD_#info Tommi Keisala, community14:31
occirol#info occirol, community, developer14:31
sledges#info Simonas Leleiva, sailor (porting, pootle, and stuff)14:31
jlassila#info Juhani Lassila, Jolla14:31
schmittlauch#info schmittlauch, Jolla phone owner, tablet backer, community member, hopefully future developer14:31
M4rtinK#info M4rtinK, community member, modRana developer14:31
eugenio#info Eugenio Paolantonio, community member14:31
toxip#info Topias Vainio, founder of the Telegram Jolla Fan Club group, wannabe Sailfish dev14:31
daitheflu#info François, community14:31
tathhu#info tathhu, community14:31
r0kk3rz#info Lewis Rockliffe, community14:32
pketo#info Pami Ketolainen, backend developer @ Jolla14:32
richdb#info Richard de Bruin, community14:32
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eekkelund#info  Eetu, community14:32
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pascalstein#info pascalstein, Jolla phone owner, Jolla tablet owner, community member, believer in SailfishOS14:32
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vgrade#info Martin Brook, vgrade, community porter14:32
tortoisedocpascalstein : i buy your jolla tablet any day :P14:32
pascalsteintortoisedoc: not for sale, i love it too much14:33
veskuh_#info Vesa-Matti Hartikainen, Jolla, SW Program Manager14:33
Jare#info Jarkko Lehtoranta, developer @Jolla14:33
a1kar#info Amilcar Santos, app developer14:33
tortoisedocbah why it will be deadware soon enoug ;)14:33
tortoisedocpascalstein : so sell it to me :P14:34
tortoisedoc(j/k)14:34
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vgradetortoisedoc: how much would you pay for a tablet with SF2.0 wihout prop bits?14:34
cfb014#info Carmen Fernández, community, sailor14:34
stephgok then14:35
tortoisedocvgrade : lets move this discussion to #sailfishos14:35
stephgBecause tortoisedoc is constrained with time we're going to deal with his two (short items). On the agenda first, please stay on topic, we won't be long!14:35
stephg#info due to participant time constraints the agenda is to be juggled slightly14:35
stephg#topic libcontentaction Merge Request on Mer (tortoisedoc, 5 minutes)14:35
*** merbot` changes topic to "libcontentaction Merge Request on Mer (tortoisedoc, 5 minutes) (Meeting topic: SailfishOS, open source, collaboration 28th of January 2016)"14:35
stephgortoisedoc, stage is all yours14:35
daitheflu?14:35
tortoisedocthanks stephg;14:35
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stephgdaitheflu: tortoisedoc to do his bits quickly then the agenda will be as per the email14:36
tortoisedocid like to get some feedback on the timeframe for the libcontentaction merge request that is currently pending on my side14:36
lbtlink ?14:36
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cybette#info Carol Chen, community memeber (sorry for being late)14:36
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stephg#info a tentatively valid MR for libcontentaction is ready; what are the next steps? What timeframe to expect?14:37
tortoisedoclbt : see mer-core/libcontentaction on mer git (for some reason my credentials do not seem to work anymore)14:37
tortoisedoctigeli was reviewing the commit14:37
tortoisedocbut there is no info on the next steps (what needs to be done next, what will be followed up..)14:38
pketohttps://git.merproject.org/mer-core/libcontentaction/merge_requests/114:38
lbtquicker than me :)14:38
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stephg#link https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/libcontentaction/merge_requests/114:38
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stephgcouple more minutes guys, the silence is deafening ;)14:39
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toxipor are we done here?14:39
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lbtI guess the first thing is to check the Maintainer file14:39
cybettei can make some noise but i might get kicked out ;)14:39
lbtto see who should be nagged14:40
tortoisedocok i see14:40
tortoisedocso its tigeli14:40
tortoisedocbut what I am saying is14:40
veskuh_Tigeli is not working at Jolla anymore so probably not having too much time to contribute in his new job14:40
schmittlauchoh, that's sad news14:40
sledges http://www.merproject.org/dash/repo/libcontentaction.html14:40
tortoisedoccan there be some things done on my side to help expedite ?14:40
stephg#link http://www.merproject.org/dash/repo/libcontentaction.html14:40
dr_gogeta86#info Fabio Isgro community14:40
tortoisedoc(test cases, etc)14:40
tortoisedoc...which leads us to the next topic14:41
bree#info bree, tester14:41
sledgestortoisedoc: ping all of the maintainers14:41
stephgok this is unresolved so onto tortoisedoc next topic:14:41
tortoisedocsledges : done already many times14:41
stephg#topic Merge Request policies on Mer (tortoisedoc, 10 minutes)14:41
*** merbot` changes topic to "Merge Request policies on Mer (tortoisedoc, 10 minutes) (Meeting topic: SailfishOS, open source, collaboration 28th of January 2016)"14:41
tortoisedocyes14:41
sledgesall 12 maintainers?14:41
tortoisedocthanks stephg14:41
tortoisedoclol 12?14:41
sledgeshttp://www.merproject.org/dash/repo/libcontentaction.html14:41
lbt#info previous link is incorrect - use http://www.merproject.org/dash2/ until I replace the /dash one with the newer version14:42
tortoisedocthis topic is about understanding how to proceed and what to expect when submitting a merge request14:42
stephgthx lbt14:42
tortoisedocis there a process of sort?14:42
lbt#link http://www.merproject.org/dash2/repo/merproject.org/mer-core/libcontentaction.html14:42
tortoisedocalso, which tools need to be taken in consideration ?14:42
tortoisedocthis all in hindsight for the developer to be able to help as much as possible14:42
tortoisedocand facilitate the merging14:43
tortoisedocfor instance, for libcontent action implementation is done, and testing on device is done as well14:43
sledgesall should be documented in https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Contribution which needs housekeeping:)14:43
lbttortoisedoc: the process was evolving and then jolla hit the iceberg and ... it needs to be rescued and dried out14:43
tortoisedocbut how about unittests?14:43
sledges(i.e. dash and stuff isn't documented there now... sorry about that)14:43
tortoisedoclbt : sure thing, not blaming the hard working crew, just hunting for solutions :)14:43
stephg#info contribution instructions to be found in the mer wiki14:44
stephg#link https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Contribution14:44
tortoisedocfor instance, I (as a developer) am not even aware if the unittests are run at all or not14:44
lbtsure. It's part of the timeframe ... it's good to highlight this.14:44
tortoisedoc(by the OBS I mena)14:44
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lbtI have some tasks to update the automation on Mer OBS to run various checks14:44
tortoisedocor if they are supposed to be (of course they should, but you never know..)14:45
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tortoisedocrun various checks include unit tests I assume?14:45
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stephg5 more minutes folks14:46
lbton Mer tests are only generally run as part of the build14:46
sledges#info those instructions are outdated and needs lots of gardening14:46
stephgthx sledges14:46
lbtthere was (a *long* time ago) a qa-runner system that never really got off the ground14:46
tortoisedocokay14:47
tortoisedocsorry my time's up, so i need to leave14:47
tortoisedocbut14:47
sledgeslbt: nice dash2, with obs projects and archs \o/14:47
lbtyou're right that we should quantify this14:48
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tortoisedoci will then ping all 12 mantainers one by one :P until someone can tell me what to do next with libcontentaction :D14:48
lbtanyone up for an action to garden the Contribution page ?14:48
tortoisedocthanks guys!14:48
lbtmaybe me?14:48
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* sledges will help lbt14:48
stephgmark you two down then for action?14:49
r0kk3rzlbt: happy to help, but i will probably need guidance as to what it needs to say14:49
tigelitortoisedoc_away: I really haven't had any extra time to work on mer, sorry14:49
lbt#action lbt, sledges & others to garden the contribution page14:49
dr_gogeta86hi tigeli14:49
stephgthx lbt14:49
stephgone more minute unless tortoisedoc_away is actually away14:49
stephgok thanks everyone for indulging us with the reordering of the agenda14:50
stephg#topic Status update from Jolla (tablets, financing, resourcing, etc.); please address the subject of tablet covers - LastuCase and MapBagrag (10 minutes)14:50
*** merbot` changes topic to "Status update from Jolla (tablets, financing, resourcing, etc.); please address the subject of tablet covers - LastuCase and MapBagrag (10 minutes) (Meeting topic: SailfishOS, open source, collaboration 28th of January 2016)"14:50
stephgAs with last week, the topic wasn't asked by anyone specifically for this meeting but coderus had raised it in the past.14:50
stephgIt's marked as sticky in TJC.14:50
stephgI see we have several sailors today which is good, so here we go..14:50
stephg#info a new blog post on the official Jolla blog detailing shipment for some tablet owners14:51
sledges#link https://blog.jolla.com/jolla-tablet-closure/14:51
stephg#link https://blog.jolla.com/jolla-tablet-closure/14:51
stephgtoo quick :P14:51
sledgesargh!:))14:51
stephgveskuh_: or jlassila is there anything Jolla would like to say?14:52
jlassilaHi all! So I'm here to answer any questions you have regarding the latest blog.14:52
sledgesany questions to that? jlassila is here to help with answers :)14:52
pascalstein#link https://blog.jolla.com/jolla-tablet-closure/14:52
stephgthanks14:52
gerbickClosure indeed. Glad to see clear communication as to what's happening, moving forward.14:52
stephggerbick: +114:52
jlassilaSo basically, if you did not read the post yet:14:52
jlassilaThe situation in a nutshell is that we are able to ship a small additional batch of tablets (540 to be exact) that have been assembled already. For all the rest we have a refund program described in the blog. 14:52
pascalsteinjlassila: Can you add an option "Donate full amount to Jolla"14:53
pascalsteinTo help the restructuring and not want the refund14:53
schmittlauchWhat's happening with those accesories like the LastuCase? Will they be refunded?14:53
jlassilaYes this will definitely be an option!14:53
stephgpascalstein: I saw that comment and think it's a nice gesture14:53
kimmolihow about the referral-race tablets? :P14:53
gerbickpascalstein +114:53
cfb014How may tablets were sending in first batch?14:53
jlassilaYes all accessories will be refunded as well.14:53
tathhucfb014, 121 :P14:53
jlassilaAccording to the plan14:53
jlassilaUnless you ordered directly form e.g. Lastu of course.14:54
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cfb014Thanks, @tathhu14:54
schmittlauchIs Jolla dropping the idea of SailfishOS on tablets or are there still plans about other tablets?14:54
r0kk3rzjlassila: I think there was also concern of the makers of the Lasucase and mapbagrag being unpaid as of yet14:54
jlassilaWell we'll deal with this project first before planning additional tablets.14:55
M4rtinKalso any idea where all the "Jolla Tablets" that have been showing-up on various Chinese actions sites are coming from ?14:55
ln-some people have already paid the VAT in the autumn; is having paid the VAT an indication of being within the 540 who will receive a tablet?14:55
elfioAlso I'd like to know if there is another partnerting on the roadmap apart of Intex one14:55
Sage_schmittlauch: the scalability enablers are in the sailfish os now so in future scaling up to bigger screens is easier.14:55
M4rtinKand as for Sailfish OS & tablets - I think this is indeed quite important to know for app developers14:56
jlassilaIf you have been invited to our shop to finalize the order, you will receive a tablet for sure.14:56
pascalsteinWill the current and next to be send out tablets be fully supported in SailfishOS?14:56
sledgesschmittlauch: we have sailfishos ported by community on all many factors and screen sizes (last one being oneplus x) https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris14:56
pascalsteinAnd all it's iterations to come14:56
M4rtinKas many counted on the tablet form factor being available (Twablet, Mieru, etc.)14:56
coleyif any of the 540 backers don't want their tablets will they be given the option of refund? and these tablet then go to the 540+n backer?14:56
JvD_\o/14:56
stephguuf lots of questions :)14:57
jlassilaSo many questions…14:57
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gerbickM4rtinK - those chinese tablets on Taobao have been flashed with Android. I've confirmed that 4 times over. They do not have Sailfish on them.14:58
jlassilaSailfish OS will be supported for tablets, but of course the installed base is quite small.14:58
schmittlauchI'm afraid that, as there probably won't be that many apps for a tablet with max 700 users, many people wil install another OS on the device.14:58
stephgcoley: I'd expect at the shopping stage those lucky users will have the option to back out14:58
schmittlauchSo can the tablet be seen as a dead platform (at least currently)?14:58
stephg#info Sailfish OS will be supported for tablets, but of course the installed base is quite small.14:58
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pascalsteinOr will Jolla make sure their own apps are still working 100% on the tablets...14:59
TylerTemp_@gerbick No. Some are with Sailfish OS, I can comfire14:59
pascalsteinThey can't leave the backers behind now by just shipping the tablets and then dropping support14:59
gerbickThose first 500 with it still have been removed TylerTemp_14:59
jlassilaIf you are among the 540 and don't want a tablet, you're spot will be given to the next one in line.14:59
stephg#info If you are among the 540 and don't want a tablet, you're spot will be given to the next one in line.14:59
Stskeepsit's really hard to drop support for a device in sailfish :)14:59
stephg:)14:59
andybransonthe tablet is an x86 device with a large screen. hopefully there will be more of those, either as community ports or licensed devices15:00
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elfiojlassila: we'll see any more partnership coming apart of intex one?15:00
elfioin the near future15:00
pascalsteinI bet on both, community port first and later licensed ones15:00
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jlassilaWe have some interesting discussions going on, but unfortunately can't tell yet.15:00
sledgesschmittlauch: if a non complex app is written by using scalability guidelines, it will work fine on any form factor https://sailfishos.org/develop/docs/silica/sailfish-application-scalability.html/15:00
stephgcouple more minutes for this then I'll roll it into the next (related) topic15:00
sledgespascalstein: ^^15:01
elfiojlassila: thanks15:01
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pascalsteinjlassila: What about that "positive surprise" that was mentioned in the new year blog pst15:01
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jlassilaWell good question!15:01
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jlassilaWe have something up our sleeve yes, but we just didn't get it into this communication.15:02
schmittlauchjlassila: have all invitations to shop already been sent out?15:02
jlassilapressure to get this out was too big to wait.15:02
dr_gogeta86jlassila, a small question15:02
dr_gogeta86I got for mistake two perks15:02
pascalsteinCan we expect what you have up your sleeve still this month?15:02
jlassilaOut of the 540 about 70 have already received invitations, rest is yet to be sent.15:03
pascalsteinOr the communication about it at least.15:03
dr_gogeta86first the 199 dollar and the second for 189 mark15:03
dr_gogeta86may I ditch just one ?15:03
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dr_gogeta86in order the  199 is first then 189 one15:03
stephgdr_gogeta86: you may have better luck asking care@ that?15:03
jlassiladr_gogeta86: you should contact our supprt about this.15:03
fpe70 received invitations, those from October?15:03
jlassilaYes those are older invitations.15:04
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stephgok one more minute:- jlassila have you got anything else you'd like to add?15:04
jlassilaCan't promise any shcedule for the next news, don't want to overpromise.15:04
pascalsteinplease communicate more frequently, that's all :)15:05
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fpethank you very much!15:05
sledgesheartbeat:))15:05
elfiojlassila: thanks for answer our questions15:05
jlassilaMobile Word Congress is in a few weeks, we're targeting to have some news there!15:05
elfiowow, great!15:05
fpe*exited15:05
jjoeare those 540 devices 64GB or 32GB or mixed?15:05
stephghehe15:05
Stskeepsyou mean mobile powerpoint congress ;)15:05
jlassilaMy pleasure.15:05
kimmolirandom appearances in irc also appreciated ...15:05
Stskeeps(mobile world congress)15:05
stephgkimmoli: +115:05
pascalsteinjlassila: thanks a lot for answering and joining! highly appreciated!15:05
stephgok then moving on15:06
sledgesMobile Excel, we shall!;)15:06
stephg#topic What are Jolla plans to rebuild trust with the community? (daitheflu, 20 minutes)15:06
*** merbot` changes topic to "What are Jolla plans to rebuild trust with the community? (daitheflu, 20 minutes) (Meeting topic: SailfishOS, open source, collaboration 28th of January 2016)"15:06
jlassilaI'll still hang around for the next topic!15:06
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stephgdaitheflu, the stage is all yours15:06
daithefluthanks stephg15:06
daithefluSince the subject is propitious for trolls, I'll try to keep things factual and constructive.15:06
stephggood call! :)15:06
daithefluFor reasons -that are mostly known- the community is slowly (but surely) fading away. I see a lot of people leaving for greener land. Reading blog.jolla.com comments is painful and you will see a lot of people really, REALLY pissed. These people were the same that supported Jolla a few months ago.15:07
daithefluSome of them invested time (and maybe even money) to comment, fill bugs in TJC, discuss, help... Some also spent some time to develop app(s). As you know, you can't really earn money from this since the store doesn't support paid apps.15:07
daithefluAnd sadly, some of these people don't even want to ear about Jolla anymore :(15:07
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daithefluI understand why they are pissed. To be honest, I'm also pissed : I spent almost all 2015 learning C++ and Qt so I can actually develop for SFOS. I did trust the "open source", "people powered" marketing stuff, I invested time and money. And I really feel betrayed right now. I know I'm not alone, just read the TJC or the blog comments.15:07
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daithefluSo, for a few months now, the community has been left with almost nothing more than a laconic blog post ~every month. As a consequence, it's slowly dying. And Jolla doesn't seem to care. At least, I haven't seen them doing anything to invert this momentum.15:07
daithefluSo my questions are simple :15:07
daitheflu1. What does Jolla plan to do to rebuild trust with the community ?15:08
daitheflu2. How can we (=what's left of the community) help ?15:08
jlassilaThanks for the topic. I can discuss this if I may.15:08
stephgplease15:09
jlassilaFirst of all: We fully realize that lately we have not been able to nurture the community as we should have. 15:09
jlassilaIt’s been really tough and challenging times, we were quite deep in the death valley this time and  we have had to concentrate on saving the company, and now rebuilding everything and so on. 15:09
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jlassilaThe thing really is that we DO care.15:09
jlassilaHonestly, lately this has also been a resource issue - as you know, Carol is no longer with Jolla (a big Jolla supporter still, thanks Carol!!). We’re looking to solve this part of the gap in some way very soon. More on that when we have the answers. 15:10
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jlassilaFor actual plans on this front, we need to come back to this. I do not have the answers here.  15:11
r0kk3rzI guess we may see some injection with new community members with the Intex device15:11
r0kk3rzwhich will hopefully get sold to sailfish first-timers15:11
cybettejlassila: <315:11
stephgjlassila: communication always helps!15:11
M4rtinKwhat about the Pootle translation instance ?15:11
sledgeseffort has been renewed15:11
M4rtinKis at least that finally ready ?15:11
elfioMaybe this is a bit offtopic but I think it's related: does Jolla have any plan to don't fall again? that could help to trust again15:11
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* lbt notes that the Mer Project is still a community project at the core of Jolla and we've seen a lot more community (and Jolla) activity there recently15:12
stephgelfio: I suspect they didn't plan to fall the first time ;)15:12
sledgesM4rtinK: when it's ready, it will be published right out15:12
stephg#info the Mer Project is still a community project at the core of Jolla and we've seen a lot more community (and Jolla) activity there  recently15:12
elfiostephg: of course15:12
ghosalmartinWhen working with mer packages, Stskeeps has been very helpful :)15:12
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schmittlauchAre there still talks with investors about open-sourcing SFOS according to the idea Stskeeps mentioned last year? (dual-license, etc.) @jlassila15:13
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sledgesfirst face-to-face input about how can community help will be brainstormed in two days at FOSDEM: https://together.jolla.com/question/126575/fosdem-2016-get-together/?answer=126578#post-id-12657815:13
sledgesthank you all those who can come!15:13
ghosalmartindo you think you guys can setup a stream to that15:13
sledgestopics are in the round-table comments15:13
jlassilaschmittlauch: Yes that is still on the agenda.15:13
schmittlauch\0/15:13
stephg#info first face-to-face input about how can community help will be brainstormed in two days at FOSDEM15:13
stephg#link https://together.jolla.com/question/126575/fosdem-2016-get-together/?answer=126578#post-id-12657815:13
tathhughosalmartin, periscope :P15:13
M4rtinKalso I second daitheflu - it was really painful during the recent crisis as you could not actually help!15:14
M4rtinKeven if you wanted15:14
pascalsteinAnd how about the inclusion of all the translations that are done by the community?15:14
sledgesghosalmartin: surely if someone hacks it together (people of caliber that come to fosdem;))15:14
cybettesledges: see you at FOSDEM!15:14
schmittlauchbecause I think many people feel so betrayed that only a big step like open-sourcing could make them return.15:14
M4rtinKand even if the topic of "how can the community help ?" was raised - no answers were given & no action was taken15:14
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ghosalmartinsledges: just a simple skype call or hangouts, or alternative15:15
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M4rtinKthis is not how you foster community support...15:15
LarstiQsledges: can you say more about the progress on community translations?15:15
M4rtinKschmittlauch: definitely!15:15
sledgesmal- is developing FM Radio API framework and app, the contribution of which Jolla is planning to embrace, paving way to other similar contributions while SailfishOS is not yet opensource15:15
daithefluM4rtinK: the issue remains valid. You still cannot actually help, even if you want to15:15
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r0kk3rz"How can community help" well mer/nemo is now in a better state to accept contributions than it was just recently15:15
sledgesmal-'s goal is to reward Fairphone 2 Sailfish OS port with that app15:16
M4rtinKI can count the number of obnoxious little issues I'm sure could be fixed by a simple patch, if only there was the source (there kinda is for the QML..) and a place where to send those patches...15:16
daitheflur0kk3rz: I meant "how can the community help rebuild trust between Jolla and...well...people"15:16
sledgesLarstiQ: for community translations we still need to polish the workflow of community<->Jolla, document that (will commence in FOSDEM), and finalise community languages translation packs served via Jolla Store15:17
daithefluM4rtinK: +115:17
sledgesother infra (of actual translation suggestions and their sync) has already been tested last year15:17
jlassiladaitheflu: we are also open to all kinds of ideas and suggestions!15:17
daitheflujlassila: I have a bunch of them that I'll probably post on TJC sometime. Just wanted to hear from Jolla before15:18
stephg#info for community translations we still need to polish the workflow of community<->Jolla, document that (will commence in FOSDEM), and finalise community languages translation packs served via Jolla Store15:18
sledgesmal-'s case is a low hanging/short term fruit, opensourcing has never been off the table15:18
M4rtinKI'll just note that some of the translation efforts have been going almost from day one15:18
pascalsteinWhat about the last Jolla phones that are on stock to be sold for a lower price?15:18
M4rtinKlike the Czech/Slovak one15:18
pascalsteinHow many are there left in stock in total?15:18
pascalsteinIndeed M4rtinK :)15:19
M4rtinKand they even picked-up some ex-MeeGo translators15:19
daithefluI just want to make sure I'm not investing time and resources in something that will die in 6 months because there are just a hundred guys still interested in the project15:19
sledgesM4rtinK: that's great when you gather a community around a culture/language, having said that i would like to encourage you to upvote also keyboard layouts, as that let's us prioritise things easier: https://together.jolla.com/question/124266/keyboard-contributions-for-inclusion-in-sfos/15:19
M4rtinKsledges: well I have been wondering about the layouts15:20
dr_gogeta86daitheflu, personally i've bought an android phone just to replace its main os ...15:20
M4rtinKsledges: and kinda worried if that also gets deadlocked indefinitely15:20
stephgdaitheflu: I'm in the same position as you and take some comfort that there is still a thriving community around the n900 and the n9 too...15:20
sledgesM4rtinK: and i wondered why the numbers are so low on upvotes, so here's when you come in ;)15:20
M4rtinKlots have been submitted but AFAIK non actually pulled to the official repos (??)15:20
M4rtinKstephg: N900 for sure - N9 - not so sure...15:21
sledgesM4rtinK: it was during the time the split layout was implemented, so it was difficult to standardise anything15:21
sledgeswith sfosv2 it should be doable15:21
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stephgM4rtinK: point is these are old 'un-supported' devices15:21
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stephg5 more minutes folks15:22
r0kk3rzthanks sledges, its little details like that which make all the difference15:22
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M4rtinKwell, unfortunately old device with a community is more of an exception than a rule15:22
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M4rtinKanyway - back to topic15:22
M4rtinKany appliable action items or stuff to info/link ?15:22
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sledgesr0kk3rz: yep, i'll get in a habit of repeating little details more often == communication :))15:22
M4rtinKat least something community can do in the meantime ?15:23
r0kk3rzsledges: :)15:23
stephg#info Jolla ask for help in prioritizing translations15:23
M4rtinKBTW, even negative information will help15:23
stephg#link https://together.jolla.com/question/124266/keyboard-contributions-for-inclusion-in-sfos/15:23
daithefluFWIU, upvote on TJC15:23
sledgesM4rtinK: create a transifex2pootle convertor ;)15:23
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M4rtinK"we will never opensource X"15:23
M4rtinKwould help community prioritize efforts15:23
sledgesi already mentioned - that has never been off the table15:24
M4rtinKrather than wait for the thing to be maybe open-sourced someday15:24
schmittlauchM4rtinK: They will for sure never opensource 2rd party components like AlienDalvik or Exchange15:24
jlassilaI will take on an action point to communicate more and more often!15:24
pascalsteinEven small details/communication can help15:25
schmittlauchM4rtinK: *3rd party15:25
pascalsteinIt doesn't have to be big news all the time15:25
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ddh87You can even communicate more by being active on Together. A short reply can do a lot of good.15:26
stephgone more minute15:26
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M4rtinKschmittlauch: yeah, that can be expected - any people are already working on replacement as a result15:26
sledgescommunity TJC moderators are doing great job in pinging required people around15:26
toxipI keep the telegram community up-to-date on where the community can help :)15:26
M4rtinKschmittlauch: so that kinda works as expected15:26
sledgesM4rtinK: schmittlauch: yes, android compat layer by krnlyng :)15:26
cybette#action jlassila to communicate more often, even with small details, such as responding on TJC15:27
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sledgestoxip: how big is the group ooi?:)15:27
M4rtinKbut other components are a gray area15:27
jlassilacybette: <315:27
kimmoliand in irc ?15:27
toxipsledges: atm only about 90 members... we used to have 120 on the old group but we hit some trouble with that so we had to migrate15:27
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stephgsledges: android compat which brings us nicely onto AoB15:27
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sledgesM4rtinK: if you think we are too silent, step up and become a TJC mod, to ping us directly :) way to help -> we're more responsive on TJC thanks to you15:27
stephg#topic All other business  (everyone, 10 minutes)15:28
*** merbot` changes topic to "All other business (everyone, 10 minutes) (Meeting topic: SailfishOS, open source, collaboration 28th of January 2016)"15:28
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cybettekimmoli: step by step :)15:28
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kimmolicybette: i'm just poking with a toothpick15:28
sledgestoxip: cool!15:28
stephgso two things from me, all of the porty-goodness that's been going on (its fast moving and I don't know what it all is, I want to hear!)15:28
M4rtinKsledges: well, I already at least monitor, vote & comment on TJC quite a lot15:28
stephgand also, there's this thing I've heard about called FOSDEM ;)15:28
sledges*poring (to those unaware:)15:28
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pascalsteinjlassila: Will the SailfishOS roadmap page be updated?15:28
M4rtinKsledges: but would probably not have enough time to be a proper mod15:29
pascalstein#link https://sailfishos.org/roadmap/15:29
M4rtinKpascalstein: very good point!15:29
jlassilapascalstein: We need to take that as an action point.15:29
pascalsteinNow it looks like development stopped, which we know is not15:30
stephg#action jlassila updates to the SFOS roadmap15:30
ddh87Is there any news on the "new" hardware company that will be formed?15:30
jlassilaCurrently the future is not as clear as it used to be, so this is not a very easy task.15:30
veskuh_I wouldn't promise update at this point.15:30
elfio+1 ddh8715:30
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pascalsteinjlassila: Do you have any idea when the shipments of eg Jolla phones and accessoires from the webstore are back in normal operation15:31
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stephgveskuh_: can you elaborate so I can info it:- resource I presume?15:31
ddh87Jlassila: There has to be a plan for SFOS af this point. A goal where the software has to be next years and all the steps to take.15:31
pascalsteinThe current mailing says there is no visibility on the logistical part of it... Can you clarify please15:31
sledgesstephg: it's known what to drop, but probably current status could be updated, veskuh_ ?15:31
toxipThe fan club has been hoping for a possibilty to buy a license for community ports that would allow the installation of alien dalvik, jolla store and ms exchange for example. Do you have anything to share about that?15:31
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veskuh_stephg: current status can be updated, the timeline for future is more difficult15:32
vgradetoxip: good Q.  The 1+ guys are itching to get something like that15:32
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jlassiladdh87: sure we do have plans, but they are living/changing.15:33
stephg#info the current roadmap status can be updated but timelines for future features/development are not yet clear15:33
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toxipvgrade: there's a high potential on the 1+ side. We could get a really nice injection of new community members there15:33
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pketoAccess to jolla store for more of the ported devices is hopefully somewhere in the near future15:33
vgradejlassila: something which could be investigated on your side?15:33
jollafanHey, is it possible to download Dalvik package with a Jolla and install it on a ported device? How legal is it?15:34
sledgestoxip: that would come nicely together with paid apps in general, but nothing ongoing there atm; please suggest ways to pay for apps, like would all people be fine with bitcoins? :) etc; especially those who know finnish paid appstore nuances15:34
M4rtinKI think a surprising number of people would still give Jolla money15:34
M4rtinKif Jolla let them15:34
stephgsledges: do you have anything about store for ported devices15:34
richdbjlassila: any plans to let return the good things of the 1.0 GUI?15:34
M4rtinK(eq. cut on paid apps, user licenses, more hardware with Sailfish OS, etc.)15:34
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eugenioI guess we aren't to expect anymore monthly sfos updates (that's understandable of course). Will future updates be released "when they are ready" or is there a more definite timeframe (like ~3 months)?15:34
ddh87jlassila: moving plans are the best that makes you agile. But never stop development midway. This is very expencive, I know from experiance.15:34
sledgesstephg: resourcing problem, please stick with warehouse for the moment, but i keep pushing weekly, will switch to every other day :D15:34
itdoesntM-att-ERhi to all.15:35
stephgpketo: ^^15:35
vgradesledges: great , thanks15:35
pketoyep15:35
toxipsledges: bitcoins please. Need a SFOS bitcoin client though15:35
pketoas I said, hopefully in the near future :)15:35
M4rtinKseparate security update stream might not be a bad idea15:35
eugenio+115:35
jlassiladdh87: thanks for the comment, noted :)15:35
stephgtoxip: https://github.com/khertan/BitPurse15:36
stephgmay need some love but I see he's updated it recently15:36
M4rtinKespecially if the update tempo might get slower15:36
M4rtinKwell, even till now it was not exactly ideal15:36
M4rtinKCVEs were slowing updates15:36
stephg3 more minutes folks15:36
M4rtinKor taking weeks to be available15:36
M4rtinK(CVE fixes)15:36
pascalsteinjlassila: How may original Jolla Phones are still in stock?15:36
toxipstephg: nice I think I've seen this before15:37
stephgM4rtinK: I'd expect that (again) to be resourcing and recovering15:37
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jollafanCan someone answer is it possible/legal to download Dalvik on Jolla and install on port?15:37
jlassilapascalstein: no clear answer on that, since there are some devices with our local partners that might come back to us.15:37
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sledgestoxip: here's hoping 3rd party apps would be offered via store, due to our evolving partnership business model, then should come paid abilities for other apps, so we should be happy jolla's changing strategy at least for this reason :)15:37
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jlassilaBut we have some stock still left!15:37
stephgjollafan: not possible nor legal currently but the community is working on an equivalent15:38
sledgesand yep there's TJC on that too https://together.jolla.com/question/6522/harbourstore-support-for-paid-applications/, but this is old thread, things and strategies changed since.. and no word there about finnish laws i'd be interested to hear15:38
pascalsteinjlassila: but when are the shipping operations to be expected normal again?15:38
pascalsteincurrently orders have a 20-30+ days of being shipped15:38
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jollafanstephg ok, thanks!15:39
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jlassilaThere has been some uncertainties with the shipping partner, but they should be shipping, AFAIK.15:39
M4rtinKI got a new Jolla in December15:40
M4rtinKtook about 3 weeks back then15:40
jollafanBy the way, when can Jolla Phone owners set an app to the partner space?15:40
stephgone more minute15:40
toxipsledges: thanks for that but I asked specifically the possibility to buy a license for the 3rd party stuff on SFOS.15:40
pascalsteinjollafan: good question15:40
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jollafanThanks, is there a good answer?15:41
sledgestoxip: understood, just saying that the demand that has reached critical mass (partnerships) will be driving this, and hopefully you'll benefit indirectly15:41
itdoesntM-att-ERtoxip +115:41
sledgesas the infra will be there15:41
stephgok then15:41
pascalstein#link https://together.jolla.com/question/90201/what-exactly-is-the-partner-space/15:41
stephg#topic Wrap up, and next meeting (5 minutes)15:41
*** merbot` changes topic to "Wrap up, and next meeting (5 minutes) (Meeting topic: SailfishOS, open source, collaboration 28th of January 2016)"15:41
toxipsledges: thank you!15:42
stephgare we happy with February the 11th, same time?15:42
kimmoli+115:42
elfioyeah15:42
pascalsteinyeah15:42
vgradeFOSDEM flu permitting15:42
sledgesoh!15:42
stephgand anyone volunteers for moderators?15:42
sledgesforgot the term:))15:42
stephgvgrade: nooo, gws!15:42
sledgesstephg: we're yet to get one ;D15:43
sledgesso yes, see you in fosdem, cybette and many you lot!!15:43
pascalsteinhopefully FOSDEM live stream or video afterwards15:43
stephgindeed15:43
cybettestephg: i can chair (will be in taiwan then, but should be doable)15:43
stephgok for meeting and moderator (cybette will cover if you can't)15:43
stephg#info next meeting 11th February at 14:30 UTC15:44
stephg#info next chair cybette15:44
cybettestephg: thank yo u<315:44
daithefluthanks for chairing stephg15:44
vgradestephg: I'm fine, but always have post FOSDEM flu15:44
stephgoh I see15:44
stephg'flu'15:44
jlassilaThanks everyone :)15:44
stephg'drank too much'15:44
cybettegreat job stephg, thanks again15:45
jollafanThanks and good bye!15:45
stephgthanks everyone for a cooperative meeting15:45
toxipthank you15:45
vgradestephg: probably15:45
daithefluthanks jlassila15:45
stephgyou were all very well behaved15:45
elfiothanks everybody :)15:45
richdbthank you15:45
veskuh_thanks15:45
pascalsteingreat job stephg, thanks15:45
sledgesstephg: no, that is actuall a thing! :D15:45
cybettejlassila: thanks for joining the meeting and anaswering all the questions!!!15:45
pascalsteinthanks jlassila15:45
daithefluand thanks everybody15:45
stephgsledges yehyeh15:45
ddh87Thanks to all of you!15:45
stephg#endmeeting15:45
merbot`Meeting ended Thu Jan 28 15:45:28 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings . (v 0.1.4)15:45
merbot`Minutes:        http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2016/mer-meeting.2016-01-28-14.30.html15:45
merbot`Minutes (text): http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2016/mer-meeting.2016-01-28-14.30.txt15:45
merbot`Log:            http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2016/mer-meeting.2016-01-28-14.30.log.html15:45
*** merbot` changes topic to "Next SailfishOS F/OSS community meeting: 28th of January 2016 14:30 UTC"15:45
sledgesstephg: ask Stskeeps :P15:45
stephgtrolololol15:45
cybetteoh yeah FOSDEM flu, MWC fever...15:45
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elfiobye!15:46
stephgso many people from all over the world, it's going to happen15:46
sledgesMWC food poisoning :D15:46
cybette;)15:46
stephgit's the brazillians to be worried about now :/15:46
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r0kk3rzcatch everyone at FOSDEM!15:46
sledgesstephg: please stay impartial;))15:46
M4rtinKdon't forget DevConf :)15:46
sledgesr0kk3rz: and catch everyhing:D15:46
cybettealright gotta run and finish some work before heading to brussels. see you, thanks all!15:47
M4rtinKthe weekend after FOSDEM in Brno :)15:47
sledgeso/15:47
sledgesM4rtinK: need a tele-porter:))15:47
stephgsledges: hehe oops sorrynotsorry :P15:47
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cybetteM4rtinK: i wish i could go to DevConf, but got tickets back to taiwan to spend chinese new year with family. next time!15:47
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M4rtinKcybette: see you next year :)15:48
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M4rtinKit'S a really nice conference & grows a lot15:48
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cybetteM4rtinK: yeah, and part of the team i work with is in Brno (Red Hat / manageiq)15:49
M4rtinKBTW, there is now a direct flight from Munich to Brno, which should help with logistics for DevConf and other conferences15:49
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M4rtinKcybette: nice! welcome on board! :)15:49
cybetteM4rtinK: \o/15:49
M4rtinKcybette: don't forget to drop by the Anaconda team when you are in Brno :)15:50
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cybetteM4rtinK: will keep that in mind!15:50
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cybetteok really have to run. ciao~!15:51
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stephgoh someone un-op'd me15:54
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stephgcan an op please change the topic to /topic Next SailfishOS F/OSS community meeting: 11th of February 2016, 14:30 UTC15:54
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SfietKonstantinWand ... I missed it ...18:43
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kimmoliSfietKonstantinW: not much19:13
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rocksteady:'(19:29
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