| *** leinir_ is now known as leinir | 06:50 | |
| *** b_lindeijer is now known as bjorn | 09:48 | |
| akaWolf | IIUC there are two images: official and community, right? | 12:44 |
|---|---|---|
| mal | for which device? | 12:44 |
| akaWolf | xperia x | 12:45 |
| mal | not sure if people maintain the community port or not | 12:46 |
| akaWolf | so updates only works with official? | 12:47 |
| mal | looks like not very much maintained, but should be easy to fix | 12:50 |
| akaWolf | there is man: https://jolla.com/sailfishx-linux-instructions/ | 12:53 |
| akaWolf | which reference SailfishOS-HardwareAdaptationDevelopmentKit-2.2.0.2.pdf | 12:54 |
| akaWolf | which image I get after building it? | 12:54 |
| r0kk3rz | community | 12:55 |
| akaWolf | can I add repos with updates with that image? | 12:55 |
| r0kk3rz | if you want the support from jolla, just buy the licence | 12:56 |
| akaWolf | I trying to understand what I need to try SFOS, which phone. with the respect that I can develop something for it in the future. | 12:58 |
| akaWolf | I'm* | 12:58 |
| akaWolf | can I build official image if I had license? | 12:59 |
| r0kk3rz | maybe, i dont think theres any major difference | 13:00 |
| r0kk3rz | all the licenced stuff is handled on first boot anyway | 13:01 |
| akaWolf | what is the difference between community and official image? | 13:12 |
| akaWolf | Current availability: EU, Norway, Switzerland | 13:13 |
| mal | akaWolf: communnity image won't have certain things like android app support and some other things like that | 13:17 |
| akaWolf | mal: so I can build image like here: https://sailfishos.org/wiki/Sailfish_X_Build_and_Flash , then add repo with updates and it will work? | 13:43 |
| mal | I don't know if it's possible to use official adaptation repos without buying the image, might not be | 13:45 |
| mal | akaWolf: so what exactly do you need from the image? | 13:47 |
| akaWolf | ability to build image with dalvik, etc | 13:48 |
| akaWolf | as official | 13:49 |
| mal | is there a reason you wouldn't just buy the image? you cannot get alien dalvik legally on the device without buying an image | 13:51 |
| akaWolf | is there Open Source Operating System or not? :) | 13:52 |
| akaWolf | I want to have ability to build the same image (having or not license doesnt matter) at least with blobs | 13:53 |
| mal | you confusing the proprietary components and the sailfish image | 13:53 |
| tadzik | yeah, dalvik is not part of the open source OS | 13:54 |
| mal | you can build the normal community image but it won't have the android app support and a couple of other packages which require a license | 13:54 |
| akaWolf | but can I build community image, add repos (there are http auth) with licensed user and get alien dalvik from repos? | 13:55 |
| mal | might in theory be possible but I don't really the point | 13:56 |
| mal | *really see the point | 13:57 |
| akaWolf | I want to use image with builded at my machine with Alien Dalvik | 13:58 |
| akaWolf | -with | 13:58 |
| akaWolf | so I want to build my system | 13:59 |
| akaWolf | and have Android apps support | 13:59 |
| mal | I have never tried to do that, it might be possible | 14:08 |
| mal | but updates wouldn't be as automatic as in official image | 14:08 |
| akaWolf | why? is there separate app for update or what? if app, it can be installed from the same repos | 14:11 |
| mal | the updater checks for updates only from official repos somehow and if you have those then it will become essentially the official image after update so the whole point of self-built image is quite lost | 14:14 |
| mal | community images are currently updated via commandline using a couple of commands | 14:15 |
| r0kk3rz | tbh you dont really build most of the image anyway, its all packages downloaded from obs | 14:16 |
| mal | yes, only a limited number of packages are built during porting, all packages cannot even be built as there are certain UI parts that are closed | 14:17 |
| akaWolf | that's all quite intricately :) | 14:17 |
| mal | ? | 14:17 |
| akaWolf | I mean all proprietary things always make world more complicated | 14:18 |
| akaWolf | much more | 14:18 |
| r0kk3rz | this is not so much proprietary things | 14:31 |
| r0kk3rz | more 'building entire operating systems from source is impractical' | 14:31 |
| akaWolf | r0kk3rz: now I develop device at AOSP, so it doesnt look so impractical for me :) | 14:54 |
| akaWolf | but regarding our case I think that at least users should have such ability | 14:54 |
| akaWolf | if it's not so, it's waste of my time | 14:55 |
| r0kk3rz | the sources are available, but theres no big mega 'build it all' script | 14:55 |
| akaWolf | there are no even clear explanation of which components are proprietary and which -- doesn't | 14:56 |
| akaWolf | only difficulties like «Sorry, not available in your country» | 14:57 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah that does suck | 15:00 |
| rigo | documentation is not the strongest point of jolla :-/ | 15:37 |
| rigo | you'll have to search in TMO or TJC to find conversations that contain the info, but it should be compiled somewhere as a digest | 15:39 |
| r0kk3rz | general rule is the core is open (mer) things with nemo or sailfish in the name are also open, things with 'jolla' in the name arent | 15:41 |
| rigo | as soon as there are third parties with nice functionality (aliendalvik) that people want to have, modularization is a must | 15:54 |
| rigo | I know I trigger a lot of trolls by saying that openness also needs to make economic sense and not render devs poorer than they should be. | 15:55 |
| rigo | and sometimes openness plus selling service is better. And sometimes selling object code is better | 15:56 |
| r0kk3rz | for the most part what jolla sells these days is consultancy services | 15:56 |
| akaWolf | why then they sell firmware is an mistery for me | 16:01 |
| akaWolf | let me write correctly: they sell firmware of his OS, which uses 0% people in world | 16:02 |
| akaWolf | not the best way to gain popularity | 16:02 |
| kimmoli | that is marketing to gain that 0% | 16:02 |
| r0kk3rz | most of the cost would be eaten up in third-party licences | 16:06 |
| r0kk3rz | like alien-dalvik, which you said you wanted | 16:06 |
| akaWolf | they only have a chance to get some part of the market if and only if they will build quality enough free firmware images with android app support | 16:24 |
| akaWolf | ofc need a lot investitions | 16:25 |
| r0kk3rz | i dont think you would get any market share with free images | 16:26 |
| r0kk3rz | most people use what their phone came with | 16:27 |
| r0kk3rz | what was the peak market share of cyanogenmod? | 16:28 |
| r0kk3rz | probably negligable | 16:28 |
| Jope | CM was relevant only in the most popular handsets anyway | 16:30 |
| Jope | anything more obscure (sony?) and the support wasn't there | 16:30 |
| Jope | why swap to a different distro when your stuff stops working.. | 16:30 |
| tadzik | heh, some of us here probably swapped android for sailfish x even though a lot of stuff stopped working :P But yeah, for the general person there's no need | 16:40 |
| tadzik | and even for someone mildly privacy concerned it's a long shot | 16:40 |
| tadzik | my sister is the kind of person who reads the terms of service of things, to the point that I had to replace windows on her laptop into ubuntu cos she wouldn't accept the things that windows 10 asked of her, and when looking for a phone she kept asking me if the one her mobile provider wanted to give her will work with "this cinnamon thing" (cyanogen) | 16:41 |
| tadzik | eventually the proper CM support wasn't there for either of the phones had to choose from, so she ends up running stock android | 16:42 |
| Jope | well swapping to sailfish you're at least getting a different os | 16:45 |
| Jope | a working stock android -> an abandoned cyanogen mod release = hooray, now you ruined your phone but are leet hax0r | 16:46 |
| Jope | so yeah, samsung users probably had good support | 16:46 |
| Jope | and maybe some other popular devices | 16:46 |
| Jope | I tended to have unpopular devices so it was rather underwhelming. I spent enough years near phone r&d that I couldn't really care less for the beta experience any more.. | 16:47 |
| mal | fairphone 2 has 3 android versions available, fairphone os (aosp with google services), fairphone open os (aosp without google services) and lineageos, first two are officially supported by fairphone and lineageos is "official lineageos" | 16:48 |
| mal | just an example that many versions can coexist for and all still remain maintained | 16:49 |
| Jope | yes, well done | 17:21 |
| Jope | :-) | 17:21 |
| Jope | so this is the old linux in the 90s thing.. everything is supported / maintained if you have the right hardware | 17:21 |
| tadzik | hehe | 17:22 |
| Jope | I'm genuinely happy for those people who made the right choice in hardware (or used the time to purchase hardware that is supported) | 17:22 |
| Jope | but if you have an android phone and someone raves on about alternative distros, then your mileage may vary a lot | 17:23 |
| tadzik | yeah | 17:23 |
| Jope | damn I'm not typing all the words I'm thinking of, but hopefully the message comes across .. meh | 17:25 |
| r0kk3rz | Jope: this is different, this is each android device is an ungodly house of cards so dont change anything | 17:28 |
| Jope | yep, it is rather far from desktop computing :-D | 17:30 |
| tadzik | woohoo, update! | 18:13 |
| r0kk3rz | woo update | 18:21 |
| tmynttin | just tried to update to 2.2.1, but got ”Sailfish os cannot be updated now. Try again later” message. Any tips? | 18:22 |
| tadzik | try again later /me hides | 18:22 |
| tiwake | heh | 18:23 |
| tmynttin | tadzik: x) i knew that was coming for me | 18:23 |
| tmynttin | but I want it NOW! | 18:24 |
| tiwake | tmynttin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Azz-6oT08c | 18:25 |
| r0kk3rz | this has a lot of my updates, nice :) | 18:26 |
| tmynttin | tiwake: :) | 18:26 |
| r0kk3rz | woah, they actually added qmltypes to the qml plugins | 18:28 |
| mal | r0kk3rz: what does qmltypes do? | 18:40 |
| r0kk3rz | autocomplete in qt creator | 18:40 |
| mal | ok | 18:41 |
| tadzik | oh jesus, working hours tracker is being obnoxious | 21:16 |
| tadzik | "started 16:00 and ended on 19:00? That's 3 hours. <accept> Today: 2 hours 59 minutes" | 21:16 |
| tadzik | after 3 tries I even got it to show 2:60. 2 hours and 60 minutes | 21:17 |
| tadzik | until you click the entry, at which point it shows 2:59 again | 21:17 |
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