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| pawky | So... can I go and buy an Xperia X to later on install the Sailfish OS including the android emulator/libraries? | 07:46 |
|---|---|---|
| coderus | pawky: sfos yes, aliendalvik most likely yes too, but a bit later iirc | 07:48 |
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| pawky | coderus: sounds a bit risky... | 07:49 |
| coderus | pawky: as always for community phones :) | 07:50 |
| pawky | will the CBeta testers have to buy the phone separately? | 07:50 |
| pawky | is CBeta tester the same as people trying out the Sailfish OS pre public release? | 07:51 |
| pawky | I desperately need to replace my phone soon.. :-/ | 07:52 |
| LarstiQ | pawky: if you don't know you're in cbeta, you're not in cbeta | 07:52 |
| LarstiQ | it's not the same as early access | 07:53 |
| pawky | LarstiQ: Well, i know i am getting sailfish releases pre public release... | 07:53 |
| pawky | oh... :-( | 07:53 |
| pawky | i am again feeling let down :'( | 07:53 |
| r0kk3rz | its a super secret pre-pre-release team | 07:53 |
| pawky | I can be super secret :-) | 07:54 |
| r0kk3rz | we might see a public initial release in a month or two, if you can hang on that long | 07:55 |
| r0kk3rz | mostly due to midsummer | 07:55 |
| pawky | r0kk3rz: Well, i must as I have no other options... :-/ | 07:55 |
| pawky | r0kk3rz: But is it worth buying the X now? | 07:55 |
| pawky | or MUST I buy it when its officially released to also get the Alien Dalvik? | 07:56 |
| pawky | I mean, I could survive just using the X and android until the release, but after the release it is important to be able to use some software with the dalvik. | 07:57 |
| pawky | (bank stuff etc) | 07:57 |
| pawky | r0kk3rz: Midsummer was like two weeks ago... | 07:58 |
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| pawky | I presume Jolla wont sell any hardware directly anymore, right? | 07:59 |
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| LarstiQ | pawky: if Alien Dalivk becomes available later on, you can get it then too | 08:01 |
| LarstiQ | pawky: you won't lock yourself out by buying an Xperia X early | 08:01 |
| pawky | LarstiQ: Ahh... great!!! | 08:01 |
| LarstiQ | pawky: the risk you take is that it might not come at all | 08:02 |
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| pawky | LarstiQ: dalvik you mean? | 08:02 |
| LarstiQ | pawky: yeah | 08:02 |
| pawky | LarstiQ: maybe its possible to rip from the current? | 08:02 |
| LarstiQ | pawky: so if you want to play it conservative, wait till Jolla has more to announce on that | 08:02 |
| r0kk3rz | pawky: i expect not, it might require some serious butchery for aarch64 | 08:03 |
| pawky | well.. i need a phone soon, its good to know I can buy the X not being left out if having to buy before relase | 08:03 |
| r0kk3rz | i think thats the risk, they've stated they want to bring dalvik to it | 08:03 |
| pawky | I believe the dalvik is very important for the phones/os success. | 08:04 |
| pawky | In some countries all banking, etc is more or less done using your phone, and they wont for sure port it to Sailfish | 08:04 |
| r0kk3rz | surely they must have a web option | 08:05 |
| pawky | not for your phone | 08:05 |
| r0kk3rz | thats terrible | 08:05 |
| pawky | quite common. They want full control over keys, and client | 08:05 |
| r0kk3rz | what country? | 08:06 |
| pawky | r0kk3rz: probably a bit more secure.... probably | 08:06 |
| pawky | Sweden | 08:06 |
| r0kk3rz | pawky: yeah, dont do research on that... just dont | 08:06 |
| r0kk3rz | you arent gonna like what you see | 08:06 |
| pawky | probably.. i am just happy things work like a charm | 08:06 |
| pawky | OCR reading etc :-) | 08:06 |
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| r0kk3rz | yeah well, if you want to use cutting edge features of things, its probably better having a supported mainstream phone :P | 08:07 |
| pawky | :-) | 08:07 |
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| pawky | I have been on the Nokia/Sailfish train since the N900. :-) | 08:08 |
| FireFly | same, and I'm really not sure what my next device will be >.> | 08:09 |
| pawky | FireFly: For me, there's just one option Xperia X | 08:09 |
| pawky | i do need a full OS on my phones. | 08:10 |
| FireFly | I mean I'm sticking to the jolla 1 for now | 08:10 |
| pawky | if you know what I mean | 08:10 |
| FireFly | nod | 08:10 |
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| pawky | me to, but the screen gets browner by the day | 08:11 |
| FireFly | huh. | 08:11 |
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| pawky | I do hope there will be a better auto correct in the future sailfish releases. I make so many spelling mistakes when using the tiny keyboard | 08:12 |
| pawky | And I am still amazed you cannot copy paste stuff from in some situations. From dokuments (like phone numbers etc) | 08:15 |
| pawky | being able to move data between apps is fairly important | 08:16 |
| r0kk3rz | i make less mistakes on the jolla c, bigger screen helps | 08:16 |
| pawky | I missed the opportunity to buy a C, by 1 minute :-( | 08:16 |
| pawky | I really want one | 08:16 |
| pawky | even tried to buy through Russia | 08:17 |
| pawky | but they never got any batch | 08:17 |
| r0kk3rz | the xperia x will mostly likely be a lot better | 08:17 |
| pawky | THATS how desperately I need a new phone ;-) | 08:17 |
| pawky | r0kk3rz: it is the X we can buy today right, not a newer version unreleased? | 08:17 |
| r0kk3rz | seems to be, read the blog post | 08:18 |
| pawky | r0kk3rz: will do, my excitement seing they had written a new post made me go here in a haste ;-) | 08:18 |
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| pawky | If buying a phone, would it be any slight chance to get into that Cbeta program? | 08:20 |
| pawky | the more who test, the better :-) | 08:20 |
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| r0kk3rz | no idea | 08:20 |
| pawky | (i know you Jolla people are in here ;-) ) | 08:21 |
| r0kk3rz | have you ported devices before? i would say that is the required skill here | 08:21 |
| pawky | r0kk3rz: Well, I presume testers with knowledge in Linux could be handy as well at times :-) | 08:22 |
| pawky | I have been hacking around with the network drivers and SSDP on the Jolla ;-) | 08:24 |
| r0kk3rz | afaiu cbeta is more for people intimately familiar with the os internals, and dont just report bugs but detailed analysis and possible solutions | 08:24 |
| r0kk3rz | and you dont ask to join, they ask you | 08:24 |
| pawky | r0kk3rz: well.. i think I am quite familiar with it... and now they know they can ask :-) | 08:25 |
| pawky | I succeeded to hack my stock trading program in Sailfish... that needs at least some skill I presume... | 08:27 |
| pawky | Its not that it will cost Jolla more to also let me try things out ;-) | 08:28 |
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| r0kk3rz | its not me you need to convince | 08:32 |
| pawky | I know... but these walls might have ears | 08:32 |
| pawky | i think it would be fair to make they who want to hack to be able do download the release even if not being in the CBeta group | 08:33 |
| r0kk3rz | they usually dont announce the goings in cbeta for this reason | 08:34 |
| r0kk3rz | *goings on | 08:34 |
| pawky | this I know, but is this the right aproach? | 08:35 |
| LarstiQ | pawky: it takes resources to deal with feedback | 08:35 |
| pawky | well.. but it still could be channeled, just let the "outsiders" feedbak be of less priority | 08:36 |
| pawky | or make us wait with our feedback. | 08:36 |
| r0kk3rz | thats why they still have early access group | 08:37 |
| r0kk3rz | its a staged roll out, i expect we will see some kind of pre-release for hackers in time | 08:37 |
| pawky | they can still have it, just let they who want download it | 08:37 |
| pawky | r0kk3rz: now thats the spirit | 08:38 |
| pawky | i just want to download test, and if/when someone wants the feedback, it will happily be provided | 08:39 |
| r0kk3rz | so wait | 08:42 |
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| pawky | :-( | 08:45 |
| pawky | i prefer, download, install and wait | 08:46 |
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| mornfall | pawky: that wouldn't work, since they plan to charge for the downloads | 09:02 |
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| pawky | mornfall: now that's interesting.... for that to work you would have to be able to buy the phone without any other OS. | 10:32 |
| pawky | It is however not to uncommon to be able to download betas for free, and later on pay for the release. | 10:33 |
| r0kk3rz | phone comes with android, thats just the way it is | 10:34 |
| pawky | Then it might be an upphill battle to get people to pay for the OS... | 10:34 |
| pawky | Then again, I'm not working on Jollas marketing division, who am I to know... | 10:35 |
| r0kk3rz | its less about marketing, and more about what is actually possible | 10:35 |
| r0kk3rz | sony arent going to do a special xperia x release for it | 10:35 |
| r0kk3rz | otherwise it would come preinstalled, rather than some assembly required | 10:36 |
| pawky | Ill bet that will not be a hit, to charge for it. If they really want it to be one, they should really include people like me into pre releases and what have you | 10:36 |
| pawky | r0kk3rz: exactly.. preinstalled, people would pay. | 10:36 |
| r0kk3rz | yes, we get it, you want the image NAOW | 10:36 |
| r0kk3rz | im not sure they expect it to be a 'hit', merely 'this is all we can offer in europe for our fans, sorry guys' | 10:37 |
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| r0kk3rz | ie. for people who like the OS, and have aging jphones and need something new | 10:38 |
| pawky | I must admit I have a gazilion of unused Windows licenses of the same reason. But I believe the extra hazzle for people putting Linux into a Windows machine, no matter fre of charge, also is to much to ask for most users. | 10:38 |
| pawky | r0kk3rz: Well, for me, its ok to sponsor Jolla by buying the OS and hack a phone. | 10:39 |
| LarstiQ | pawky: that is why there was the "want to make it as easy as possible for regular users" in the community meeting | 10:39 |
| pawky | But the rest of the world probably wants it pre installed. | 10:39 |
| LarstiQ | pawky: realistically speaking, s/rest of the world/existing community/ | 10:40 |
| pawky | LarstiQ: Well, but I believe many in here actually do not need it over simplified. I believe most of us already having swapped several Android ROMS and what have you. | 10:40 |
| pawky | Maybe doing it extra easy will be to over engineer things not necessary for the big growd ;-) | 10:40 |
| r0kk3rz | pawky: to truely comply with the licence, you'll have to build your own AOSP base :P | 10:41 |
| abranson | pawky: i think that's a good point, but I think it's still a subset. I know a few Jolla 1 users who are nervous about buying a new phone and flashing it. | 10:41 |
| r0kk3rz | but we can do better | 10:41 |
| Renault | pawky: it is possible to do that, anybody can create a company to install SailfishOS on several devices | 10:41 |
| entil | I don't know if this is going on a tangent here, but as a community user, I find the upgrade pretty much the only part that would put me off if I hadn't learned the hoops | 10:41 |
| entil | partly because of that and partly because the port works well enough, I still delay upgrading | 10:42 |
| pawky | Well, as long as the hardware manufacturers arent fighting us by restricting the possibilities to swap ROMS or do a factory reset, Quite many will have a go even if its a bit of a challenge. | 10:44 |
| pawky | you only need someone might be out there should you brick it. | 10:44 |
| pawky | (to know) | 10:44 |
| entil | installing on the fp2 was quite straight-forward | 10:44 |
| entil | of course different phones are different | 10:45 |
| pawky | As Sailfish is linux... shouldnt the source code be downloadable once the release is out? | 10:45 |
| pawky | license wise? | 10:45 |
| LarstiQ | pawky: yes/no | 10:45 |
| pawky | of course not the Dalvik.. but the rest? | 10:46 |
| LarstiQ | pawky: http://releases.sailfishos.org/sources/ for the open bits | 10:46 |
| pawky | LarstiQ: what will be missing? | 10:46 |
| pawky | drivers? | 10:46 |
| r0kk3rz | its reasonably difficult to brick a sony phone because they give you flashing tools | 10:46 |
| pawky | r0kk3rz: exactly | 10:46 |
| pawky | hence Jolla might not need to over engineer the installer on the first run :-) | 10:46 |
| entil | aren't some of the UI components also closed, or have they been opened by now? | 10:47 |
| pawky | maybe someone in the community could later on create the one click wonder install; as an app ;-) | 10:47 |
| entil | upgrades would benefit from that | 10:47 |
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| entil | ota gui | 10:48 |
| pawky | i presume one will not be able to install a current Sailfish version on a X, right? | 10:49 |
| r0kk3rz | what current version? | 10:50 |
| pawky | the one on my... Jolla phone? | 10:50 |
| r0kk3rz | you arent even wrong :P | 10:50 |
| pawky | its a totally different CPU I presume | 10:51 |
| r0kk3rz | you need an adaptation for the device | 10:51 |
| r0kk3rz | obviously | 10:51 |
| pawky | different architecture? | 10:51 |
| r0kk3rz | otherwise wtf have the porters been doing all this time | 10:51 |
| pawky | Lr0kk3rz: LOL | 10:51 |
| pawky | 64 bit port? | 10:51 |
| r0kk3rz | thats part of it, but its device specific | 10:52 |
| pawky | Are there 2 X phones? a standard and a slim? | 10:57 |
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| pawky | Do I need the 64GB variant, or will the 32gb do? | 11:02 |
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| pawky | Will Sailfish also be installable on the XA and XZ versions? | 11:13 |
| RaYmAn | XA is an entirely different platform (mediatek) | 11:14 |
| pawky | RaYmAn: oh.. ok so it needs to be the X only, will 32gb suffice? | 11:14 |
| RaYmAn | I have no idea, I only know about the phones, not the sailfish part :P | 11:14 |
| RaYmAn | I think I have the 32gb version | 11:15 |
| LarstiQ | pawky: f5121 only for now | 11:15 |
| pawky | LarstiQ: Ok :-) | 11:15 |
| pawky | LarstiQ: F5122, not? | 11:16 |
| LarstiQ | pawky: no. Please read the blogpost/faq and community meetings | 11:16 |
| RaYmAn | I suspect it'll work though, just not gsm :P | 11:16 |
| r0kk3rz | in other sony variants it still needs to be rebuilt though | 11:17 |
| r0kk3rz | the same image wont boot | 11:17 |
| pawky | Then the F5121 it is! :-P | 11:18 |
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| r0kk3rz | LarstiQ: obviously pawky likes the personal treatment available here :) | 11:18 |
| pawky | r0kk3rz: B-) | 11:19 |
| LarstiQ | r0kk3rz: yeah, I'm going to throw this channel on ignore to get some work done | 11:19 |
| pawky | LarstiQ: oh nooooooooo..... | 11:19 |
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| r0kk3rz | LarstiQ: engaging with your community *is* work | 11:20 |
| LarstiQ | r0kk3rz: I have _specific_ work that needs doing before tomorrow | 11:21 |
| pawky | LarstiQ: I am bored at work... who could tell ;-) | 11:21 |
| pawky | The current Jolla phone isnt to keen on SSDP, which is what most Sony cameras and peripherals use to communicate. As the Xperia X is a Sony, will this actually be working in the Sailfish release? :-) | 11:27 |
| pawky | or to be more correct, will the Alien Dalvik recognise this type of traffic? | 11:30 |
| r0kk3rz | i doubt it | 11:30 |
| pawky | SSDP actually works fine on the current when using perl :-) | 11:31 |
| pawky | r0kk3rz: but that would be a bit against Sony's idea wouldn't you say? | 11:31 |
| pawky | They want us to connect more, and more , and more.... | 11:31 |
| r0kk3rz | what idea? | 11:31 |
| pawky | ^ | 11:31 |
| r0kk3rz | this isnt a sony product | 11:31 |
| pawky | is Sony Xperia X not a Sony produkt? | 11:32 |
| RaYmAn | if Sony was actually properly involved, presumably it wouldn't require unlocking your device :P | 11:32 |
| r0kk3rz | with android it is, but once you hack with it then it becomes something else | 11:32 |
| pawky | well.. in the current case its the Dalvik that ignores the SSDP traffic somehow.... | 11:33 |
| pawky | (current Sailfish) | 11:33 |
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| TMavica | It is extremely difficult find Xperia X in Hong Kong | 12:05 |
| pawky | TMavica: Amazon? :-) | 12:07 |
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| TMavica | Have link? | 12:19 |
| pawky | https://www.amazon.de/Sony-Smartphone-Touch-Display-interner-Speicher/dp/B01BU2956Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499169282&sr=8-1&keywords=sony+xperia+X++f5121 | 12:20 |
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| masque | the new arm 64bit build for xperia will also run every current 32bit applications in jolla store and openrepos, or they need to be recompiled for arm 64bit? | 12:26 |
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| mal | masque: for now the userspace is 32-bit, only 64-bit kernel and maybe some android side libs are 64-bit | 12:29 |
| mal | afaik | 12:29 |
| masque | thanks | 12:32 |
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| Kabouik | Situations app does not see my custom-made Ambiances, even though they are selected as favorites in Jolla Settings. How can I fix this? | 15:17 |
| r0kk3rz | talk to the people who make situations? | 15:22 |
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| Kabouik | I hoped they would be here r0kk3rz! :] | 15:58 |
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| kimmoli | Kabouik: self made ambiances are a bit different than stock ones. | 18:53 |
| kimmoli | you can make ambiance package out of your own and install. | 18:54 |
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| tiwake | oh hey | 19:18 |
| tiwake | https://blog.jolla.com/sony-xperia-project-update/ | 19:18 |
| * tiwake reads | 19:18 | |
| RZ | ye that's pretty cool | 19:19 |
| tiwake | ok so you can buy an Xperia and install SailfishOS on it | 19:19 |
| tiwake | after I build my server next month I'll grab one of those phones I think | 19:20 |
| RZ | might not be that simple, early beta and all | 19:20 |
| tiwake | I won't build my server till mid-next month | 19:21 |
| phlixi | i hope jolla does not have time forever to finish the image, in order to be able to care about "core customers" again (china, rus etc...) | 19:22 |
| tiwake | jolla kinda got screwed with the tablet thing | 19:24 |
| tiwake | well, its moving along anyway | 19:26 |
| tiwake | maybe it will be ready for christmas | 19:26 |
| phlixi | i am actually consifent it will be a bit sooner | 19:27 |
| phlixi | its software, you make updates for software. much easier than for hardware :-) | 19:28 |
| phlixi | on the other hand | 19:28 |
| tiwake | software is a lot of times more complicated than hardware though | 19:28 |
| phlixi | some of the early releases took 2 months or so until the got rolled out? | 19:28 |
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| phlixi | if one would compare this to that, and give credit, that this might be a bigger release than lets say a regular point release... | 19:29 |
| phlixi | i think september is realistic beeing optimistic :-) | 19:30 |
| phlixi | ..at least for a blog update :D | 19:30 |
| tiwake | if they offer the Xperia, or a 1/2 off coupon or something to such a device to people who payed for the tablet, I'd be fine with that | 19:30 |
| phlixi | i think there is something in the comments about giving discount for the image instead of refund | 19:31 |
| tiwake | oh, the OS is going to cost on top of the device? | 19:32 |
| phlixi | well, probably the other way around, i doubt the image will be 150EUR | 19:32 |
| phlixi | afaik this is official that it will cost something | 19:32 |
| tiwake | gotta make money somehow I guess | 19:33 |
| phlixi | i am happy to pay for the image, makes me more confident i am a customer | 19:33 |
| phlixi | i do not like all the free stuff you get everywhere | 19:33 |
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| phlixi | (when offered by big corporations, thatsw obviously somethign different for e.g. FOSS) | 19:34 |
| phlixi | also i doubt there will be vauchers for sony devices or similar | 19:34 |
| phlixi | its speculation from my side, but it seems like a big benefit for jolla, to not be the one selling the hardware (and having to take care with broken stuff etc) | 19:35 |
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| phlixi | on the other hand, i see a bit of pr potential in giving vauchers or something like that | 19:37 |
| r0kk3rz | tiwake: i think its less about making money, and more about not losing so much | 19:39 |
| tiwake | I understand that too... lol | 19:40 |
| tiwake | effort takes time, and time is money | 19:40 |
| r0kk3rz | and things licenced from third-party companies cost money too | 19:41 |
| phlixi | also there are probably licence fees (or similar) involved, at leat for alien dalvik, exchange support and the keyboard thingy | 19:41 |
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| sebsebseb | hi | 20:29 |
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