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| MoritzJT | Has the default sshd_config changed again with the latest SFOS release? | 02:11 |
|---|---|---|
| MoritzJT | I reset it and cannot set it up to allow nemo and root login via password | 02:11 |
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| EyaA | jolla )01!@ )0h | 07:19 |
| EyaA | Jolla 2 online | 07:20 |
| EyaA | coming | 07:20 |
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| EyaA | )0h | 07:27 |
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| Yaniel | where? | 07:35 |
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| EyaA | R&D | 07:35 |
| EyaA | specing | 07:36 |
| EyaA | beta testing | 07:36 |
| Yaniel | cool | 07:36 |
| LarstiQ | EyaA: eh? | 07:36 |
| EyaA | sample markup | 07:37 |
| EyaA | spread the word | 07:38 |
| EyaA | make it so | 07:38 |
| EyaA | shout it so | 07:38 |
| EyaA | Jolla | 07:38 |
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| EyaA | )01!@ | 07:40 |
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| Nicd- | EyaA: stop lying | 07:48 |
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| EyaA | )oh | 07:48 |
| Nicd- | also stop typing like that | 07:48 |
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| warfare | bugzy: 27 | 09:38 |
| warfare | whoops. | 09:38 |
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| MMori | So all lies whqt EyaA said? | 09:40 |
| MMori | *what | 09:40 |
| LarstiQ | MMori: let's phrase it this way, I'm not aware of us doing anything called 'Jolla 2' | 09:41 |
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| pp | I'd rather see the xperia port, honestly. | 09:50 |
| LarstiQ | that _is_ something we're doing | 09:51 |
| coderus | MMori: eyaa is just a crazy jolla fan :D | 09:51 |
| Helle | I am the only weird one who is more looking for cheap tablets that can run SailfishOS :) | 09:51 |
| Helle | but I'm in touch with a company that might be able to get me both cheap tablets and the Android sources that go with them, so I stand a chance | 09:52 |
| pp | preferably such that I can choose to spend 200-400e on the hardware (vs. 150e for something that is not much faster than the jp1) | 09:53 |
| pp | Finally I'm at least using the tablet! Well, my kid is :-) | 09:54 |
| Helle | I wish I had the Jolla tablet, but eh | 09:55 |
| Helle | it's one of the things Android is acceptable with, tablets, because the only default app I end up using is the browser | 09:55 |
| Helle | while on a phone you, due to integration, need to way more use the supplied apps | 09:55 |
| pp | The display is good! But it's also always out of battery. | 09:55 |
| Helle | but I have a home automation project where a tablet running SailfishOS would be comfortable for | 09:56 |
| pp | not sure what's happening there, could be android apps & intel inside... | 09:57 |
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| r0kk3rz | Helle: if you dont care too much about all the hardware features it should be easy to get the display up and running | 10:08 |
| r0kk3rz | and wifi | 10:08 |
| Helle | r0kk3rz: exactly the plan | 10:10 |
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| MMori | LarstiQ and coderus, thanks for confirming | 10:18 |
| Helle | r0kk3rz: but the issue with many cheap Android tablets is that you absolutely stand no chance for even obtaining the GPL obligatory source | 10:19 |
| Helle | so I had to throw a few e-mails around | 10:19 |
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| LarstiQ | or that the source is actually GPL compatible | 10:20 |
| Helle | exactly | 10:20 |
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| r0kk3rz | Helle: well you might get something that looks like sources, but they dont compile or work :D | 10:20 |
| Helle | so I had to find a cheap one, with a small enough EU importer that still actually cared | 10:20 |
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| Helle | (the small enough importer is that they would otherwise just ignore me) | 10:21 |
| pp | you could maybe find a "cyber secure android tablet" market if you found a good one :-) | 10:23 |
| Helle | pp: given that I am not particularly going for high performance.... | 10:24 |
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| pp | so you won't need chinese (or nvidia) binary blobs :-) | 10:25 |
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| M4rtinK | the Jolla Tablet is really nice | 10:27 |
| M4rtinK | but it's power management unfortunately rather sucks | 10:28 |
| Helle | rub it in :P | 10:28 |
| M4rtinK | I wonder if it's intrinsic to the hardware | 10:28 |
| Helle | M4rtinK: having seen other Intel tablets, it is atleast part way.... | 10:28 |
| M4rtinK | or if it is something that could have been fixed if things actually went as planned | 10:29 |
| Helle | M4rtinK: I think it's a mix of factors | 10:29 |
| M4rtinK | & Jolla people would be more likely to fix hardware adaptation bugs | 10:29 |
| M4rtinK | could be | 10:29 |
| M4rtinK | but still can say Sailfish OS works really well on the tablet form factor | 10:30 |
| M4rtinK | so hopefully more tablets are supported in the future | 10:30 |
| Helle | M4rtinK: yeah, but I have tinkered with a ton of stuff on tablets and uh, tablet OS is actually an easier challenge | 10:30 |
| M4rtinK | it's not like that Jolla Tablet itself has many exclusive features | 10:30 |
| Helle | especially as Android's UI on tablets has been getting worse..... | 10:30 |
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| Helle | because they are unifying their UI, while tablets, especially larger ones, need some UI tweaks | 10:31 |
| pp | probably should poke around the tablet a bit, it might even be something trivial | 10:31 |
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| M4rtinK | disabling wifi seems to help | 10:31 |
| pp | ok, so bad wifi driver :-) | 10:31 |
| pp | or maybe wifi driver doesn't enable power save mode | 10:32 |
| M4rtinK | active power usage seems OK | 10:32 |
| M4rtinK | but idle power usage seems to be horrendous | 10:32 |
| M4rtinK | you basically have to plug it in once a day | 10:32 |
| M4rtinK | otherwise it would be discharged when you pick it up after a day or two | 10:33 |
| Helle | M4rtinK: aah, sounds like the old Nokia vs Google discussion on power saving | 10:33 |
| M4rtinK | well, Sailfish OS uses wakelocks these days | 10:33 |
| Helle | M4rtinK: yes, but only where necessary | 10:33 |
| M4rtinK | so it should just freeze things hard, like Android | 10:33 |
| Helle | it still does laptop style powersaving where the hardware supports it | 10:33 |
| Helle | wakelocks are a headache for developers.... | 10:34 |
| M4rtinK | they are | 10:34 |
| M4rtinK | & they are used AFAIK | 10:34 |
| Helle | I have an app that uses multicast, yeah, good luck on Android.... | 10:34 |
| Helle | and the reason why that is a "good luck" is because Android can't selectively keep enough of the system alive to deal with multicast | 10:35 |
| M4rtinK | you have to prevent your app from being frozen | 10:35 |
| M4rtinK | on Sailfish OS | 10:35 |
| M4rtinK | at least on the Jolla phones (1/C) | 10:35 |
| Helle | M4rtinK: that actually isn't the issue, the problem on Android is that it basically kills the wifi, SailfishOS doesn't do that if you have a multicast listener open | 10:35 |
| M4rtinK | had to do that in modRana for track recording | 10:35 |
| M4rtinK | oh, right | 10:36 |
| M4rtinK | it's true that for example Jabber works | 10:36 |
| M4rtinK | yeah, that could be difference | 10:36 |
| Helle | so SailfishOS goes to sleep, except for the stuff needed to make multicast work, a selectivity that Android cannot do | 10:36 |
| M4rtinK | interesting | 10:36 |
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| Helle | and Google's answer is "use our push functionality, that does stay availible" | 10:37 |
| M4rtinK | well, I would at least like the Tablet to survive 2-3 days in idle with some charge remaining though ;-) | 10:37 |
| Helle | which isn't /quite/ true, it only stays fully availible on GSM enabled devices (using OOB signaling on the baseband....) on wifi only devices, it just wakes up and polls the Google services for push notifications every so often | 10:37 |
| M4rtinK | that can still help | 10:38 |
| Helle | and ofcourse, I am not going to rely on a Google server.... | 10:38 |
| M4rtinK | by batching the stuff | 10:38 |
| Helle | M4rtinK: yep, that still helps, that is true, but it's undesirable from a independence and portability PoV | 10:38 |
| M4rtinK | certainly | 10:39 |
| Helle | Doesn't help that it means it needs Play Services then | 10:40 |
| Helle | which uh, are both closed source and not on all devices | 10:40 |
| M4rtinK | Vendor lock-in! :D | 10:41 |
| Helle | exactly, so not doing that, instead, on Android I draw more power and use some tricks with time and wakeups alarms to still sleep part of the time | 10:41 |
| Helle | but on SailfishOS, on both the Jolla 1 and C, multicast just works and does exactly what you expect | 10:42 |
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| M4rtinK | it's nice when one can skip the embedded/Android hacks for one | 10:46 |
| M4rtinK | the horrendous amount of hacks that it needed to run Python/Qt5 apps on Android... | 10:46 |
| Helle | M4rtinK: yes, I am doing that one aswell..... | 10:47 |
| Helle | I still need to figure out a clean build enviroment setup for it | 10:48 |
| Helle | current one is duct-tape | 10:48 |
| M4rtinK | https://pyotherside.readthedocs.io/en/latest/#building-for-android | 10:50 |
| M4rtinK | are you also using PyOtherSide ? :) | 10:50 |
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| M4rtinK | (note of a statically compiled Python 3 and other things are compiled into a QML Plugin :) ) | 10:51 |
| Helle | M4rtinK: yes | 10:52 |
| M4rtinK | Helle: cool! :) | 10:52 |
| M4rtinK | BTW, I'm trying to get PyOtherSide updated on Sailfish OS | 10:53 |
| Helle | Been tempted to move the whole mess into QML Javascript though because of the build setup being a bit messy | 10:53 |
| M4rtinK | https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/pyotherside/merge_requests/2 | 10:53 |
| Helle | but eeeh, too many libs | 10:53 |
| M4rtinK | using Python makes it possible to keep some sanity :) | 10:54 |
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| Helle | M4rtinK: eeeh, I am primarily using it as there where pre-existing libraries for some stuff that I wanted to do in Python | 10:54 |
| Helle | while there where none in any sane form of Javascript | 10:55 |
| Helle | nor in C++ | 10:55 |
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| M4rtinK | yeah, there are tons of Python libraries! :) | 11:02 |
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| AL13N | i would like the xhr to be updated... it would make me use less python | 11:29 |
| AL13N | next to that, i'd like some File IO (possibly via dbus), but that's not so easy | 11:29 |
| coderus | AL13N: let me tell you can use Qt | 11:31 |
| AL13N | Qt IO via QML ? | 11:32 |
| M4rtinK | AL13N: BTW, modRana 0.54.5 can set opacity for routes (and tracklogs & the logging trace) :) | 11:33 |
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| AL13N | M4rtinK: i read the changelog, i think it fixes the opacity problem i had in last version | 11:34 |
| AL13N | ah, you mean the routs | 11:34 |
| coderus | AL13N: you can write qml extensions plugins | 11:34 |
| AL13N | coderus: yes, i can do that, bit of work though | 11:34 |
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| coderus | also you can try Mer.Cutes | 11:35 |
| coderus | https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/cutes/ | 11:35 |
| AL13N | M4rtinK: where is the setting to set opacity for the routes? i'm looking at the UI part | 11:36 |
| M4rtinK | Options->Navigation | 11:36 |
| M4rtinK | BTW, 0.54.5 has yet to clear QA in Store | 11:36 |
| M4rtinK | but is already live on OpenRepos | 11:36 |
| AL13N | ah, i'll wait another day then | 11:37 |
| M4rtinK | and indeed, layer opacity should also be fixed :) | 11:37 |
| AL13N | M4rtinK: did you ever get that bug fixed where scaling did a wrong offset on the calculated route? | 11:37 |
| M4rtinK | hmm | 11:37 |
| M4rtinK | map scaling ? | 11:37 |
| AL13N | do a route and then zoom in or out | 11:37 |
| AL13N | the route is being offsetted, until you move your map around | 11:38 |
| AL13N | M4rtinK: i don't mind it, because then i could see through the route to the traffic overlay :-) | 11:38 |
| AL13N | it was my trick | 11:38 |
| M4rtinK | lol | 11:39 |
| M4rtinK | seems to be fixed | 11:39 |
| AL13N | i'll test and see if i still have it | 11:39 |
| M4rtinK | there have been a lot of changes/fixes to both route rendering & map rendering on 0.54.x | 11:39 |
| M4rtinK | thanks! :) | 11:39 |
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| M4rtinK | I guess it would be useful to render some layers on top of the route | 11:40 |
| AL13N | coderus: thx for the hints, btw | 11:40 |
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| AL13N | render layers on Top of the route? | 11:40 |
| M4rtinK | but I'm not sure how hard that would be ATM | 11:40 |
| M4rtinK | yeah | 11:40 |
| AL13N | like? | 11:40 |
| M4rtinK | they can also be transparent | 11:40 |
| AL13N | like labeled route info? | 11:40 |
| M4rtinK | say you put the route with opacity 100% | 11:40 |
| M4rtinK | at the bottom | 11:41 |
| AL13N | right | 11:41 |
| M4rtinK | and the map with opacity 50% on top | 11:41 |
| M4rtinK | or just traffic overlay, etc. | 11:41 |
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| M4rtinK | maybe too complicated though | 11:41 |
| AL13N | but, wouldn't the route be at the top? | 11:41 |
| AL13N | i can't see the benefits | 11:41 |
| M4rtinK | it might improve the visibility in some case | 11:42 |
| M4rtinK | but indeed probably too much work for that :) | 11:42 |
| M4rtinK | transparent route should work as well :) | 11:42 |
| M4rtinK | I guess I should rather make it possible to tweak route width & color :) | 11:42 |
| AL13N | that would be more useful :-) | 11:43 |
| AL13N | M4rtinK: also, like a gradient? | 11:43 |
| AL13N | :-) | 11:43 |
| AL13N | j/k | 11:43 |
| AL13N | you could do the hot/cold game, have gradient from UV --> IR :-) | 11:44 |
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| AL13N | M4rtinK: i guess after route width + color, mostly usefull would be multiple destinations, but probably not that easy | 11:45 |
| AL13N | (each in a diff color) | 11:45 |
| AL13N | and then alternatives | 11:46 |
| AL13N | and autochanging route from current position | 11:46 |
| AL13N | etc... | 11:46 |
| AL13N | *cough* | 11:46 |
| AL13N | well, back to work | 11:47 |
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| M4rtinK | multiple destinations ? | 11:50 |
| M4rtinK | that's just multiple routes, right ? :) | 11:50 |
| M4rtinK | I'm thinking about showing route variants (from multiple routers, etc.) | 11:51 |
| M4rtinK | also waypoints the route should go through | 11:51 |
| M4rtinK | as for rerouting | 11:51 |
| M4rtinK | the code for that is already there | 11:51 |
| M4rtinK | but it needs a turn-by-turn navigation UI | 11:52 |
| M4rtinK | to make sense | 11:52 |
| M4rtinK | but I do certainly plan to do that :) | 11:52 |
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| AL13N | M4rtinK: i don't really want a turn-by-turn navigation; but i want the current shown route to be shrinked from the current position; and if i'm going the wrong way(on purpose) that it triggers a recalc | 12:21 |
| AL13N | multiple destinations means just go to A and then to B and then to C, etc... | 12:22 |
| r0kk3rz | M4rtinK: waypoints sounds useful | 12:23 |
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| LarstiQ | Helle: does https://gsuiteupdates.googleblog.com/2017/03/updates-in-g-suite-to-streamline-hangouts-and-gmail.html affect you then? | 12:29 |
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| LarstiQ | shutting down google talk servers | 12:30 |
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| LarstiQ | or hmm | 12:30 |
| M4rtinK | AL13N: that concept of multiple destinations sounds like waypoints to me :) | 12:33 |
| AL13N | i guess it does | 12:33 |
| M4rtinK | or possibly multiple routes concatenated :) | 12:33 |
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| AL13N | depends on how you look at it | 12:33 |
| M4rtinK | yeah :) | 12:34 |
| M4rtinK | thinking about it | 12:34 |
| AL13N | also one very very tricky concept is estimated travel time | 12:34 |
| AL13N | depending on factors | 12:34 |
| M4rtinK | I might be able to enable the rerouting code even before having the full tbt UI | 12:34 |
| M4rtinK | will just have to put in in the current UI somehow :) | 12:35 |
| AL13N | rerouting code is imho more usefull then waypoints | 12:35 |
| M4rtinK | or just do a very simple "navigation" UI | 12:35 |
| M4rtinK | a "navigate" button | 12:35 |
| M4rtinK | that starts that | 12:35 |
| M4rtinK | and some way to quit it | 12:36 |
| M4rtinK | and it just does rerouting for now | 12:36 |
| M4rtinK | as I really need to say "navigate me now" | 12:36 |
| M4rtinK | triggering rerouting without that could be wrong | 12:36 |
| M4rtinK | they could just be checking arbitrary routes somewhere | 12:37 |
| M4rtinK | will have to think about it :) | 12:37 |
| r0kk3rz | M4rtinK: surely it would only need to reroute if you're choosing from 'my location to X' and you move off the path? | 12:40 |
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| M4rtinK | r0kk3rz: yeah, I guess that could work for now :) | 12:45 |
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| AL13N | r0kk3rz: that was my thinking | 13:14 |
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| Helle | LarstiQ: no, the whole out of band push stuff (which I ended up using as I didn't want to depend on Play Services for legal reasons anyway) is a weird thing where Google, carriers and phone manufacturers allow Google to send push messages OOB to the baseband, which than wakes up the rest of the phone | 14:56 |
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| LarstiQ | Helle: oho | 15:06 |
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| GyrosGeier | hi | 16:03 |
| LarstiQ | hei Simon! | 16:03 |
| GyrosGeier | \o/ | 16:04 |
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| GyrosGeier | long time no see | 16:04 |
| * LarstiQ nods | 16:04 | |
| * GyrosGeier is going to be at Revision party | 16:04 | |
| LarstiQ | since I moved to Finland it's harder to attend all the events | 16:04 |
| GyrosGeier | ah | 16:05 |
| GyrosGeier | there was the Primitive 20 years anniversary | 16:05 |
| SQUelcher | GyrosGeier! | 16:05 |
| GyrosGeier | hehe | 16:06 |
| GyrosGeier | everyone is here | 16:06 |
| GyrosGeier | and all I wanted was a hint what phone to get | 16:06 |
| GyrosGeier | I dropped my 6230i onto someone's foot, and besides causing them pain, it also loosened one of the loudspeakers, so the ringtone is no longer loud enough | 16:07 |
| GyrosGeier | and I got to play with a Jolla phone for a few minutes, and was wondering where to get one | 16:08 |
| LarstiQ | GyrosGeier: we don't have any phones for sale atm, so it's either running a port, getting something secondhand or waiting (Sony Xperia X I'd say then) | 16:09 |
| LarstiQ | GyrosGeier: https://together.jolla.com/question/136143/wiki-available-devices-running-sailfish-os/ | 16:09 |
| LarstiQ | GyrosGeier: or well, maybe you can still buy an Aqua Fish | 16:10 |
| GyrosGeier | mmh | 16:15 |
| M4rtinK | IIRC someone in Switzerland got 50 Aquafishes | 16:16 |
| M4rtinK | and has been selling them with a markup | 16:17 |
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| SQUelcher | aquafish is rubbish in most european as it doesn't support lte800.. :/ | 16:26 |
| M4rtinK | well, yeah | 16:31 |
| M4rtinK | but the only thing you can really buy *right now* | 16:32 |
| GyrosGeier | hm | 16:32 |
| M4rtinK | other than that really looking forward to an Xperia | 16:32 |
| * GyrosGeier is with Telekom | 16:32 | |
| GyrosGeier | so 800MHz is kind of important | 16:32 |
| * GyrosGeier checks | 16:32 | |
| SQUelcher | GyrosGeier: 800MHz is important with all carriers in Germany | 16:32 |
| ^7heo | yea | 16:32 |
| ^7heo | GyrosGeier: why don't you simply get a fairphone and install Sailfish on it? | 16:33 |
| M4rtinK | just had my Jolla C get stuck - the notification LED was on, but I could not make the device unblank the screen | 16:33 |
| M4rtinK | knocking or pressing the power button did nothing | 16:33 |
| M4rtinK | had to reinsert the battery | 16:33 |
| SQUelcher | I've got a Jolla 1 and a Jolla C :> | 16:33 |
| M4rtinK | It started up but then it was of course almost discharged | 16:33 |
| M4rtinK | had this happen a couple of times already unfortunately | 16:34 |
| M4rtinK | which means I can't really depend on my Jolla C to be always available, so it can't be used as an alarm clock for example | 16:34 |
| M4rtinK | had it get stuck & discharge overnight already a couple times | 16:35 |
| M4rtinK | so I really hope the Xperias will be more solid in this regard :) | 16:35 |
| GyrosGeier | at shop.fairphone.com I can only preorder the FP2 | 16:36 |
| r0kk3rz | M4rtinK: should be with a bit of manufacturer support | 16:36 |
| r0kk3rz | i got the idea that the support intex gave was probably limited | 16:36 |
| M4rtinK | I guess better than nothing at that time | 16:37 |
| M4rtinK | imagine there would have been no Jolla C & Aquafish | 16:37 |
| LarstiQ | GyrosGeier: do I recall correctly you're in the south? | 16:37 |
| M4rtinK | I think we would be much worse off | 16:37 |
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| GyrosGeier | LarstiQ, Hamburg now | 16:39 |
| r0kk3rz | M4rtinK: i dunno, things are still fairly bad :) | 16:39 |
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| M4rtinK | r0kk3rz: well, yeah but at least some things are happening :) | 16:43 |
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| phlixi_o | oth i use congstar and coverage is fine for me (telekom in GER, but from reseller without LTE). so i guess for some people (like me) it doesnt matter whether lte800 is supported or not :-) | 17:02 |
| phlixi_o | but whatever.. gn8 :-) | 17:02 |
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| pketo | M4rtinK: are you on early access 2.1.0.10 and using bluetooth? that might explain the freeze | 17:03 |
| M4rtinK | pketo: I'm on 2.1.0.10 | 17:04 |
| M4rtinK | pketo: but Bluetooth seem to be off | 17:04 |
| M4rtinK | I've certainly not been using it at that time | 17:04 |
| pketo | ok, then it is probably something else | 17:04 |
| M4rtinK | I think I might have confirmed an alarm a while before | 17:05 |
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| M4rtinK | and then there might have been a new message notification a while after (Russian Jabber spam, yay! :P) | 17:05 |
| pketo | though you don't need to be "using" the bluetooth, just having it on and some paired devices is enough | 17:06 |
| M4rtinK | and the notification led was still on | 17:06 |
| M4rtinK | when I noticed it's hot & not reacting | 17:06 |
| M4rtinK | so I wonder if notifications can trigger something that get's it stuck ? | 17:07 |
| M4rtinK | in any case I've been getting this since day one unfortunately | 17:07 |
| M4rtinK | at random times - even on charger! :) | 17:07 |
| pketo | not that I know of, the bug that slipped in .10 was in the bluetooth status indicator | 17:07 |
| M4rtinK | I let my Jolla C charge over night and it was OFF in the morning and almost discharged | 17:08 |
| M4rtinK | the quick status indicator shows off | 17:08 |
| M4rtinK | as do Settings - Bluetooth section | 17:08 |
| M4rtinK | so probably indeed something else | 17:08 |
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