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| Shoggoth | Hi! I just purchased a Jolla phone and I would like to take a full image backup of the current OS image before I upgrade it to the latest version.... how do I go about performing the backup? | 04:32 |
|---|---|---|
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| Shoggoth | Another question... I've tried enabling developer mode but it just gets stuck on "Enabling developer mode". I reset the device to factory and tried it again but still no success :( | 05:26 |
| Shoggoth | nevermind… it finally worked…. what is it that takes so long when setting up developer mode? | 05:32 |
| cehteh | it installs some shit | 05:35 |
| cehteh | patience :D | 05:35 |
| cehteh | also notified the authorities about you trying to tamper with your gps tracker :D | 05:36 |
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| Shoggoth | cehteh: thanks :) | 05:55 |
| Shoggoth | cehteh: not sure if you saw my previous question…. perhaps you know the answer: How do I take a full backup of the phone… ie. I want to grab the current firmware image? | 05:56 |
| cehteh | i dont know about 'full' backup either | 05:57 |
| cehteh | there is this backup thing which is just partial | 05:57 |
| cehteh | and you could backup the partitions but i dont know about restoring and how jolla tinkered with things | 05:57 |
| cehteh | with a new phone just let it update to the newest version available before anytihng else and you are fine | 05:58 |
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| Shoggoth | cehteh: thanks again… | 06:06 |
| Shoggoth | One last question … not just for you :) | 06:07 |
| Shoggoth | I’m wondering of there is a decent hard case available for the Jolla phone.... | 06:07 |
| cehteh | i use the insmart flipcase | 06:08 |
| Shoggoth | a bit like this (http://www.amazon.com/Shell-Holster-Case-Motorola-Razr/dp/B009RQ1M5K) or this (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BLACK-HARD-SHELL-CASE-COMBO-BELT-CLIP-HOLSTER-KICKSTAND-FOR-NOKIA-N9-/121264978736) | 06:08 |
| cehteh | same as in the jolla shop .. but there its out of stock, you can order it from the company directly | 06:08 |
| Shoggoth | cehteh: yeah… I’ve got that case but I’m somewhat clumsy… the two cases I linked above are the ones I had for my previous phones | 06:08 |
| cehteh | i dont know any better, no otterbox unfortunally | 06:09 |
| cehteh | the insmart flipcase protects the phone quite well | 06:09 |
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| Shoggoth | I really like the beltclip shell case design…. I did find that the “Acer Liquid E2” has exactly the same dimensions but the camera isn’t in the same place :( | 06:12 |
| cehteh | i cant help much with that | 06:13 |
| cehteh | well drill a hole for the camera when everything else fits | 06:13 |
| Shoggoth | The “Samsung Galaxy Core II” is pretty close (0.7 mm shorter and 0.1 mm narrower) perhaps that might work | 06:13 |
| cehteh | adding a belt clip to the insmart thing with some rivets shouldnt be impossible either | 06:14 |
| Shoggoth | cehteh: heh… excellent idea…. I didn’t think of that | 06:14 |
| Shoggoth | another excellent idea | 06:14 |
| cehteh | ask your local shoe repair shop | 06:14 |
| Shoggoth | out of curiosity; what timezone are you in? | 06:14 |
| cehteh | germany | 06:14 |
| Shoggoth | oh ok! I thought you would all still be in bed but I see it’s after 7am | 06:15 |
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| chem|st | Shoggoth: full backup is dd'ing partitions in recovery, but really who needs that? you can basically tar your home to uSD and live from that | 11:55 |
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| chem|st | restoring should not be done on another release, so a backuped partition from 200 should be recovered with 200 installed | 11:56 |
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| schoppenhauer | hi. do jolla phones have bluetooth? (I cannot find any option, and I was wondering…) | 13:48 |
| ggabriel | schoppenhauer: yes | 13:48 |
| Mikaela | Yes | 13:48 |
| ggabriel | you mean you don't know how to turn it on? | 13:48 |
| schoppenhauer | yes. | 13:49 |
| Mikaela | And it's at least 4.1 or something like that as my bluetooth speakers work with it and Samsung Galaxy S3 don't detect it | 13:49 |
| ggabriel | settings->bluetooth icon that is set up by default | 13:49 |
| ggabriel | or settings->bluetooth | 13:49 |
| ggabriel | and you can pair devices from there etc | 13:49 |
| ggabriel | good read to learn basic stuff: http://jolla.com/guide/ | 13:50 |
| schoppenhauer | ok thx. | 13:52 |
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| schoppenhauer | is it possible to get a developer shell via bluetooth? | 14:16 |
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| schoppenhauer | and if not, can I do it manually using bluez? | 14:25 |
| schoppenhauer | (has it been done?) | 14:25 |
| ramsesHD- | AFAIK it is possible. But don't know how. | 14:26 |
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| pahartik_ | schoppenhauer: By using "bt-network --server nap pan" one can create network interface... | 14:30 |
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| pahartik_ | schoppenhauer: At least that is what I use | 14:34 |
| schoppenhauer | pahartik_: thx. I will try that. | 14:38 |
| schoppenhauer | do I have to be paired for that already? | 14:38 |
| pahartik_ | schoppenhauer: Yes | 14:38 |
| schoppenhauer | pahartik_: what do I need to install for having bt-network? I guess some rpm with bluez, right? | 14:39 |
| schoppenhauer | (because I do not have this command) | 14:40 |
| pahartik_ | schoppenhauer: I probably needed to install that, possibly also built it on "OSC" | 14:42 |
| schoppenhauer | osc = ? | 14:42 |
| r0kk3rz | schoppenhauer: you can build on the phone, or in a mersdk chroot/vm | 14:43 |
| r0kk3rz | or on obs | 14:43 |
| schoppenhauer | pahartik_: how is the package called? is it just the normal bluez? | 14:44 |
| schoppenhauer | r0kk3rz: ok, i probably would build it on the phone. | 14:44 |
| schoppenhauer | r0kk3rz: does jolla have /usr/local? | 14:44 |
| schoppenhauer | or do I have to build an rpm | 14:45 |
| r0kk3rz | pahartik_: you had a bluez-tools on obs? https://build.merproject.org/package/show/home:pahartik:sailfish-testing/bluez-tools | 14:47 |
| pahartik_ | r0kk3rz: I just found that again as well | 14:48 |
| pahartik_ | r0kk3rz: My current "bt-network" is probably from that repository | 14:48 |
| schoppenhauer | ok thx. | 14:49 |
| schoppenhauer | I will look into that. | 14:49 |
| schoppenhauer | (and probably come again because I can't get it to work, but have to try first) | 14:49 |
| r0kk3rz | schoppenhauer: always a good idea to check build.merproject.org before compiling stuff yourself | 14:51 |
| schoppenhauer | ok. | 14:51 |
| r0kk3rz | schoppenhauer: and also a good idea to compile what you need on there, so other people can use too | 14:51 |
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| schoppenhauer | r0kk3rz: I usually write nix-expressions for stuff I compile. (I wonder whether somebody ported the nix package manager to jolla…) | 14:52 |
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| PaulePanter | Hi. Have you head of regression regarding Linux, USB and MTP? | 15:09 |
| PaulePanter | I am unable to copy files. :/ | 15:10 |
| PaulePanter | libmtp-Fehler: Could not get file from device. | 15:10 |
| PaulePanter | Man, why can’t it just work. It’s such a waste of time. | 15:10 |
| till | I'm using sftp/scp and have very little problems :) | 15:11 |
| cehteh | rsync ftw | 15:12 |
| r0kk3rz | Did anyone who bought a Jolla Tablet from the Webshop recieve an email about refund yet? | 15:12 |
| cehteh | mtp is gigantic fail anyway | 15:12 |
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| r0kk3rz | usual answer when someething doesnt work in linux, people tell you to do it a different way | 15:14 |
| r0kk3rz | that said, ive been using syncthing for transfers, seems to work quite well | 15:15 |
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| cehteh | mtp is just broken by design .. on any system | 15:21 |
| cehteh | where it works its just a shitload of workarounds | 15:21 |
| cehteh | but i'd wish for git-annex on the jolla | 15:22 |
| * phlixi also uses SFTP and rsync - works like a charm | 15:23 | |
| phlixi | if something tries to use mtp, first thing i do usually is looking for any other way without using mtp^^ | 15:24 |
| cehteh | even when it works its broken. there are no atomic updates, no continutation of interrupted transfers, no renames | 15:25 |
| phlixi | at work i have a lot of androids an an iphone... i remember once trying to use mtp with a nexus galaxy, man that was terrible | 15:26 |
| phlixi | dont remember in detail, but there was something where the workaround was to reboot the windows box | 15:26 |
| phlixi | i dont know, to update file list, or similar trivial | 15:26 |
| phlixi | absolutly broken | 15:26 |
| phlixi | ^^ | 15:26 |
| phlixi | luckily you can ssh into the jolla via every everything | 15:27 |
| phlixi | (and do sftp or similar for the topic^^) | 15:28 |
| cehteh | i'd wish the sshd would be available w/o devel mode | 15:28 |
| phlixi | i dont mind | 15:28 |
| cehteh | (inkl root access) | 15:28 |
| phlixi | if you have no clue at all, then you should not be root. in that sense its just right i think | 15:29 |
| phlixi | if you dont activate devmode, its much harder to break something | 15:30 |
| phlixi | if you think you know what you do, then activate devmode and be root... everything fine | 15:30 |
| phlixi | i do the same for my parents, where i take care of their "IT"... they dont have root... thus they have a hard time breaking something | 15:31 |
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| PaulePanter | Thank you for the suggestions. | 15:56 |
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| PaulePanter | The strangest thing it it worked the last times I tried it. But now it doesn’t. | 15:56 |
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| rangoy | Hi. anyone who knows if it is possible to route incomming calls to another phone via SIP (or any other voip solution)? | 15:59 |
| rangoy | in android, it's hard to get access to the radio stack. how is this in the jolla world? | 16:00 |
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| chem|st | cehteh: ehrm devel-mode is root+ssh+terminal?! so you want the terminal be gone? | 16:07 |
| chem|st | cehteh: I would like to have it enable/disable without internet connection | 16:07 |
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| cehteh | chem|st: i've installed the terminal separately | 16:08 |
| cehteh | but i think ssh has much more value even for normal users who dont want devel mode, thats why i think it should be enabled (or enableable) by default | 16:09 |
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| phlixi | cehteh: but that is devmode | 16:33 |
| cehteh | not exactly | 16:34 |
| phlixi | i read that as, you want devmode to be available without internet connection, rather than not having to activate devmode | 16:34 |
| phlixi | dont forget, that with ssh you open a door on your radio for everybody | 16:35 |
| cehteh | i want a sshd_config which i can edit independent from devmode .. disable password login completely, enable root login | 16:35 |
| phlixi | ...with a typical password of a random facetuber like "123456" its a pretty bad idea to have that on by default | 16:35 |
| cehteh | yes | 16:35 |
| phlixi | but you seem to be knowing what you are doing. whats wrong with having to activate this in the first place? | 16:36 |
| cehteh | thats why i want sshd independent activateable from devmode | 16:36 |
| cehteh | for other users this would be useful as well .. hey even a windows 'jolla suite' could just hide rsync/ssh behind some nice gui | 16:36 |
| phlixi | afaik there is no such thing | 16:37 |
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| cehteh | that would be *much* more awesome than any other shit transfer software other vendors ship for their phones | 16:37 |
| cehteh | 'could' | 16:37 |
| Yaniel | heck you could grab rsync/ssh from msys | 16:38 |
| cehteh | i am talking about noob friendly | 16:38 |
| cehteh | myself .. linux only and i know what i am doing | 16:38 |
| cehteh | but file transfer which is secure and safe .. and integrated in windows .. (winscp?) ... | 16:39 |
| cehteh | hey thats better than anything else i know | 16:39 |
| phlixi | cehteh: only about you, personally, is it really a bad thing for you to push a button (once!) in order to get sshd? | 16:40 |
| cehteh | look at this crap samsung kies or whatever | 16:40 |
| Yaniel | yes but you could grab the sw from msys and wrap it in a qt form or whatever | 16:40 |
| cehteh | for me its barely ok .. i hate that it tinkers with the sshd configuration | 16:40 |
| cehteh | anyway, its pointless because it wont happen | 16:41 |
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| phlixi | but once you had pushed the button, you can do whatever config you want. or am i mistaken? | 16:45 |
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| cehteh | havent tried that much yet .. but i suspect disabling/reenabling devel mode will trash custom config? .. system upgrades as well | 16:46 |
| phlixi | why would you ever want to disable devmode again? | 16:46 |
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| cehteh | can i remove the password from devmode? | 16:48 |
| cehteh | ok disable password login in sshd config would be enough | 16:48 |
| cehteh | anyway .. not for me .. i saied that because i was thinking with little effort this could be good for causual users | 16:49 |
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| phlixi | and i think it is perfect as it is for casual users, since they can not break stuff | 16:50 |
| phlixi | beeing root means you can easily break stuff | 16:51 |
| phlixi | and having sshd with weak password... well, very bad idea | 16:51 |
| Yaniel | the default should be password logins disabled, root logins disabled | 16:51 |
| cehteh | then w/o root but still ssh | 16:51 |
| phlixi | no | 16:51 |
| phlixi | from mac you know its a jolla | 16:51 |
| phlixi | root has default pasword, thus having a user login is like having root | 16:52 |
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| phlixi | of course, in theory such thing as a suite which does sftp under the hood, yeah, that would be nice for average joe. and in this case, mabe it would need some sort of sshd. but there is no such thing for now. | 16:54 |
| phlixi | and i personally prefer existing specialized tools. thus i use filezilla. no need for another "suite" to handle files | 16:55 |
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| phlixi | rather than developing such suite, i would prefer some kind of emulating of a block device (but very low priority, there a re 100 things way more important) | 16:59 |
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| phlixi | that would be better than mtp | 16:59 |
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| cehteh | http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Internet-Traffic-Android-baut-Dominanz-aus-3096384.html no pie in the chart for jolla :D | 17:24 |
| cehteh | (ok maybe 1% from 'other') | 17:25 |
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| pdanek | http://news.softpedia.com/news/images-of-meizu-pro-5-with-ubuntu-touch-leaked-online-499707.shtml | 17:47 |
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| chem|st | cehteh: and as soon as you get a shell it is dev mode and jolla needs to say "if you do this you may void your warranty" and what is ssh+root so different from ssh+root+terminal | 17:55 |
| chem|st | and normal users do not need root | 17:55 |
| chem|st | they maybe need sftp to /home/nemo | 17:56 |
| cehteh | yes .. could even be restricted to sftp scp rsync | 17:56 |
| chem|st | and to single out sshd for such purpose is already asked on tjc, and well you can always depend on sshd with your app | 17:57 |
| chem|st | cehteh: you can just make a package that depends on it, so that can be a community effort, does not need jolla to do that | 17:57 |
| cehteh | ssh has a lot features to lock things down | 17:57 |
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| chem|st | ssh is pretty locked down on sfos | 17:58 |
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| cehteh | would be nice if one could disable the password and paste a pubkey into the 'devel mode' settings | 17:59 |
| chem|st | not as much as you wish probably but that is considered "advanced" | 17:59 |
| chem|st | cehteh: people at that lvl can already just do that... stupiod requesting that in a gui | 18:00 |
| chem|st | it is much easier to not use the phone to setup ssh-keys | 18:00 |
| cehteh | k | 18:00 |
| chem|st | and most of all, how do I read the ssh key to my phone to then paste it? | 18:01 |
| chem|st | phlixi: as it will be more and more wireless these days, sshfs is much more convinient, for on the road, am I crazy and plug my phone into strangers computers and unlock? | 18:05 |
| chem|st | for compatibility I'd like to have webdav with some management | 18:06 |
| Yaniel | make the suite app display its ssh key as a qr-code | 18:06 |
| cehteh | i have usb as 'charge only' .. | 18:07 |
| chem|st | Yaniel: what suite | 18:07 |
| Yaniel | the hypothetical one | 18:07 |
| chem|st | Yaniel: that is the wrong way round | 18:07 |
| chem|st | Yaniel: the suite needs to be ran on sfos | 18:07 |
| chem|st | run | 18:07 |
| cehteh | just run samba on the phone :D | 18:08 |
| chem|st | Yaniel: with the suite being on the phone any browser will work and you do not even need any ssh set up for that | 18:08 |
| chem|st | cehteh: really, that coming out of your mouth? | 18:08 |
| cehteh | that WAS A JOKE! | 18:08 |
| phlixi | chem|st: of course not. its just that "behaving like a block device" is super campatible, like plugin it into everything that acceppts fat usb drives, like cheap radios or whatever... (i asume you refered to the block device thing i said) | 18:08 |
| chem|st | cehteh: :D | 18:09 |
| Yaniel | well if you want to go that way about it | 18:09 |
| chem|st | phlixi: MTP is super compatible with the company that designed it, just not on their systems^^ | 18:09 |
| phlixi | chem|st: no, mtp is just crap | 18:09 |
| chem|st | phlixi: read again! :D | 18:09 |
| phlixi | i am on windows | 18:10 |
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| cehteh | phlixi: there are some security implications with that, but i once had the idea too of a virtual FAT server ... plug device in and you see a FAT filesystem as storage device | 18:10 |
| phlixi | it IS worst crap i know | 18:10 |
| chem|st | phlixi: and again | 18:10 |
| cehteh | which is just virtual, but any actions on that reflect through the real FS | 18:10 |
| chem|st | phlixi: read teh whole line! | 18:10 |
| phlixi | chem|st: then i dont get it | 18:10 |
| chem|st | phlixi: it does not work on windows | 18:11 |
| cehteh | it doesnt work on linux either | 18:11 |
| phlixi | chem|st: well, then it is considered crap | 18:11 |
| chem|st | it does not fcking work on the OS by the company that designed it | 18:11 |
| cehteh | and the spec is complicated .. but still lacks the most basic things | 18:11 |
| phlixi | if something is that bad, that it even does not work on windows, what does it tellyou? | 18:11 |
| chem|st | phlixi: I have 3 differnt windwos versions, none of them works | 18:12 |
| phlixi | you know what does work everywhere out of the box? usb drives... | 18:12 |
| chem|st | not with my former android tablet not with Jolla | 18:12 |
| chem|st | phlixi: linux otoh does work with both now | 18:12 |
| kjetilho | MTP allows concurrent access (like NFS). a block device must have exclusive use | 18:12 |
| sobukus | But MTP really not fun to use. | 18:13 |
| chem|st | kjetilho: there are ways to have teh client see it as block device | 18:13 |
| phlixi | kjetilho: thats why i was talking about emulating it. i know why implenmentations on n9/00 are bad... | 18:13 |
| cehteh | the best here was once a Inkjet printer .. connected to a windows 98 computer (yes that story is years ago) ... EVERY computer in the network, even the linuxes could print on that printer | 18:13 |
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| cehteh | but it was impossible to print locally from the windows 98 to the printer connected directly to that box | 18:13 |
| phlixi | ^^ | 18:13 |
| cehteh | thats windows :D | 18:14 |
| phlixi | well, my printer works great (on windows) | 18:14 |
| chem|st | cehteh: reminds me of win98 wanted to be MASTER on any network you plugged it into, no matter what was there | 18:14 |
| cehteh | on another box i managed to get a resource conflict on the mouse driver .. move the mouse -> bluescreen :D | 18:15 |
| phlixi | to be fair, when w98 was new shit, it was pretty much impossible to print on linux | 18:15 |
| chem|st | phlixi: some "windows" hardware works better on linux, incl but not limited to my scanner, printer, phones | 18:15 |
| cehteh | lpd worked 20 years before w98 | 18:15 |
| cehteh | just not windows gdi printers | 18:15 |
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| cehteh | and scanners back that time where scsi and worked out of the box on linux .. | 18:16 |
| phlixi | i was thinking of somethign that could do more than just print line | 18:16 |
| chem|st | phlixi: printers have been unix before win3.11 was able to print... | 18:16 |
| kjetilho | phlixi: eh, PostScript is from the 80s | 18:16 |
| cehteh | exactly | 18:17 |
| cehteh | that was far beyond the windows printing capabilities | 18:17 |
| chem|st | PDP11 has printer support of all kinds | 18:17 |
| chem|st | that is even pre-dos | 18:17 |
| cehteh | postscript printers where just expensive then | 18:17 |
| chem|st | cehteh: enough "there is someone wrong on the internets" :) | 18:18 |
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| chem|st | I have that gear at work, stylus printers for the win | 18:18 |
| phlixi | of course you can find an argument if you misunderstand what i say on purpose... i actually ran linux in 1996 and know that it was pretty pain to print something, compared to windows | 18:19 |
| chem|st | that thing can print that print-stream protocol from the 70s, is like a line by line feeding | 18:20 |
| chem|st | phlixi: on windows hardware yes | 18:20 |
| phlixi | chem|st: that does not make sense | 18:20 |
| chem|st | consumer HW for a couple of bucks never spoke PS | 18:20 |
| phlixi | ps is software | 18:21 |
| chem|st | phlixi: the printers, consumer printers... never spoke PS, that is hardware for me too you know... | 18:21 |
| phlixi | i had a mannesmann laserprinter, that of course did ps | 18:22 |
| phlixi | not gdi | 18:22 |
| chem|st | I have an epson LQ you can feed close to anything, I think it even eats that typwriter language | 18:22 |
| phlixi | in the end, mtp simply sucks | 18:25 |
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| chem|st | phlixi: yes | 18:25 |
| * cehteh wants mobile with ipv6 and static IP on the phone .. then ssh from anywhere! | 18:26 | |
| phlixi | isnt that what hostnames are for? | 18:26 |
| cehteh | who likes constant dns updates .. biut mmkay | 18:27 |
| cehteh | anyway .. nowaday mobile networks are crappy nat'ed ipv4 | 18:27 |
| cehteh | or does anyone give out native v6? | 18:27 |
| cehteh | vpn with some reverse tunnel works. but thats ugly too | 18:28 |
| phlixi | and yes, vpn | 18:28 |
| phlixi | not sure why that is ugly, isnt it preferable to be always in the home network? :D | 18:29 |
| cehteh | ugly to set up and ugly performance | 18:29 |
| chem|st | cehteh: a stable vpn to home is usually the better way than having it hooked to the outside | 18:29 |
| phlixi | and all the dirty pipes you go through are only, well, dirty pipes | 18:29 |
| chem|st | to many places to lock down and supervise | 18:29 |
| cehteh | yes thats the bright side of vpn .. even loosing connection or reconnect to another network .. vpn is still up | 18:30 |
| chem|st | but yes static IPs make life easier | 18:30 |
| cehteh | peer to peer between phones etc | 18:30 |
| chem|st | I don't care much about it as I have static IPs at work and dyndns at home | 18:31 |
| chem|st | and when I am otg, I do not need to access my phone remote, as that is localhost^^ | 18:32 |
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| pdanek | http://www.talkandroid.com/283568-tri-drops-android-for-sailfish-os-turing-phone/ | 21:43 |
| pdanek | Official SFOS phone! | 21:44 |
| pdanek | Not a community port. | 21:44 |
| pdanek | What a news! | 21:44 |
| stephg | pdanek: where've you been ;P | 21:46 |
| M4rtinK | I still see this as quite controversial | 21:47 |
| taaem | that's been out for half a week now but did Jolla actually confirm that? | 21:47 |
| M4rtinK | eq. if they will ever actually deliver something | 21:47 |
| the_mgt | taaem: one article states that they asked jolla oy and they confirmed | 21:48 |
| taaem | the_mgt: any link? | 21:48 |
| M4rtinK | also changing the os mid-way through a preorder can be arguably seen as negative by some of the people who have preordered the phone | 21:48 |
| pdanek | it's official, they have it on their official web in specs.... not as dualboot, as as only OS | 21:49 |
| pdanek | https://www.turingphone.com/ | 21:49 |
| pdanek | and they claim it will run Android apps so proper official port | 21:50 |
| pdanek | is that the big news that Jolla has mentioned to come with soon? | 21:50 |
| pdanek | stephg: yep, I missed those news, a bit busy in my new job | 21:50 |
| taaem | funny how on the website they're still mentioning that they run a custom UI... | 21:51 |
| phlixi | and to be honest, those pictures look quite ugly | 21:51 |
| M4rtinK | well, they also claim it will have google play | 21:51 |
| pdanek | no they don't | 21:51 |
| M4rtinK | which sounds ultra fishy | 21:51 |
| pdanek | they claim it will have alternative Android store | 21:51 |
| phlixi | the fake screenshots | 21:51 |
| M4rtinK | given how Google uses play as a locking device | 21:52 |
| till | 5.5"... phew | 21:52 |
| the_mgt | taaem: hm, I do not find any clue in my browser history, I might have misremembered it | 21:52 |
| pdanek | the verge says it's "terrible news" for Turing phone | 21:52 |
| M4rtinK | hmm, I remember seeing it somewhere | 21:53 |
| Nicd- | pdanek: well Jolla and Sailfish are not exactly everyone's favorite choices right now | 21:53 |
| M4rtinK | could be noise or unofficial sources | 21:53 |
| pdanek | M4rtinK: yep | 21:53 |
| pdanek | they stated alternative Android store | 21:53 |
| r0kk3rz | pdanek: hard to get too excited over a company that hasnt shipped a phone before | 21:54 |
| Nicd- | people paid for Android on the phone and now they're getting this niche system from a company that has mostly been in the news lately due to failures | 21:54 |
| M4rtinK | or they might be talking about the reimplementation of the Google play services that Cyanogen mod has been working on | 21:54 |
| phlixi | of course its bad news for the average sheep... they dont get the shiny bling bling where they pay with their data around the clock... shiny gmail, for free, yay | 21:54 |
| pdanek | "The Turing Phone will still be able to run Android Apps on the Sailfish OS without issue. An Android application store will be available for you to download your favorite apps." | 21:54 |
| M4rtinK | I learned to disregard those mainstream websites | 21:54 |
| taaem | pdanek: the verge is quite iOS-ish lately | 21:55 |
| M4rtinK | their stuff is IMHO either utterly random/whim-based or outright paid by the highest bidder | 21:55 |
| phlixi | thanks M4rtinK, couldnt say it better | 21:56 |
| pdanek | the only problem is that Turing phone looks incredibly ugly | 21:56 |
| M4rtinK | np :) | 21:56 |
| Nicd- | phlixi: most people just want it to work and not be vaporware. SFOS nearly fails on both counts currently :P | 21:56 |
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| phlixi | yep, thats sad | 21:56 |
| the_mgt | pdanek: agreed on the uglyness | 21:56 |
| M4rtinK | its oozing with hip | 21:58 |
| the_mgt | but most web news sites, even highly technical ones, didn't think that (yet another) linux on a mobilephone was the biggest invention since the potatoe | 21:58 |
| phlixi | if someone with out taste tries to make something really exclusive and expensive, and if it should be a phone, maybe it will look like the turing phone | 21:58 |
| the_mgt | when the original jolla phone came out, i was surprised by the media silence | 21:58 |
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| the_mgt | especially compared to the hype the jolla fans created on the few blogs, etc. I mean look at the release party. and in the media, almost nothing | 21:59 |
| r0kk3rz | the_mgt: most media is focussed on the US market, which the Jolla phone didnt sell in | 21:59 |
| the_mgt | r0kk3rz: german media isn't, and we can almost swim over to scandinavia | 22:00 |
| r0kk3rz | the_mgt: this is true | 22:00 |
| the_mgt | heise and golem had some articles, but it was more like "ah, look, how odd, next news please" | 22:00 |
| Nicd- | Finland is not a part of scandinavia :P | 22:00 |
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| phlixi | my impression is that golem puts out a news everytime there is something newsworthy | 22:01 |
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| the_mgt | Nicd-: and we couldnt really swim over to finland, neither. | 22:01 |
| Nicd- | you could walk! | 22:02 |
| the_mgt | true | 22:02 |
| phlixi | ...and heise... they had a multiple pages special about the TOHKB2 in their print thingy c't | 22:03 |
| the_mgt | phlixi: I try to avoid golem. but I read heise media a few times a week, and it was only on tjc that I accidently stumbled over the turing phone | 22:03 |
| phlixi | http://www.golem.de/specials/jolla/ | 22:03 |
| taaem | but the german sites aren't nearly as negative as the US ones | 22:06 |
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| the_mgt | they are quite sober. there is no hype. "look at this odd thing here" | 22:08 |
| r0kk3rz | its not even that far, you could totally swim to finland | 22:09 |
| taaem | the_mgt: true but i should be quiet i don't even have a Jolla | 22:09 |
| the_mgt | which is understandable, since most linux on mobile phone ventures died a slow death. or never were born. like openmoko or samsungs stuff | 22:10 |
| taaem | *hust* Tizen *hust* | 22:10 |
| r0kk3rz | the_mgt: i hear Tizen is doing well in india | 22:10 |
| fzk | who said openmoko | 22:11 |
| r0kk3rz | something like a million tizen devices a quarter, which is pretty good | 22:11 |
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| taaem | r0kk3rz: probably more than all Sailfish OS devices out there :/ | 22:11 |
| M4rtinK | I still have a FreeRunner :) | 22:12 |
| r0kk3rz | taaem: certainly so, there is less than 1m sailfish devices for sure | 22:12 |
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| the_mgt | I would loved to have an enlightenment17 driven phone in 2010 | 22:13 |
| phlixi | are there any figures besides what you can see as installs of android support in harbour? | 22:13 |
| the_mgt | in fact I used one on the cebit in 2011 or so | 22:13 |
| taaem | phlixi: nothing official afaik | 22:14 |
| phlixi | and inofficial? | 22:14 |
| taaem | also not besides what you mentioned | 22:15 |
| pdanek | so what do we have on horizon? only Turing and Intex? anything else? | 22:17 |
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| phlixi | and hope | 22:17 |
| phlixi | :D | 22:17 |
| r0kk3rz | fairphone | 22:17 |
| r0kk3rz | puzzle phone | 22:17 |
| pdanek | Fairphone and Puzzlephone will be community ports | 22:17 |
| pdanek | doesn't count | 22:17 |
| r0kk3rz | i wouldnt be so sure about that | 22:17 |
| taaem | so much hope | 22:17 |
| pdanek | r0kk3rz: both community ports without official Android support,confirmed | 22:18 |
| taaem | pdanek: hopefully we get paid app support in Harbour and then Alien Dalvik for all | 22:18 |
| r0kk3rz | pdanek: you know its a lot less work on jolla to convert a well functioning community port to a proper licenced port right? | 22:19 |
| pdanek | hmm, right | 22:19 |
| phlixi | it would love to see official fairphone ports | 22:20 |
| phlixi | (and support for paying in harbor) | 22:20 |
| pdanek | but fairphone has the raised edges, that can't work well with Salfish gestures | 22:20 |
| r0kk3rz | speaking to keesj, fairphone are planning proper support for many different operating systems | 22:20 |
| r0kk3rz | keesj being the lead software guy for fairphone | 22:20 |
| mal- | pdanek: it works quite ok in my opinion | 22:21 |
| pdanek | mal-: enough space to swype from sides? | 22:21 |
| M4rtinK | well, I think the official/unofficial difference could less of an issue given the recent advances in OSS Android emulation | 22:21 |
| mal- | pdanek: yes | 22:21 |
| phlixi | M4rtinK: true :-) | 22:21 |
| M4rtinK | as that's basically the main/only difference IMHO | 22:22 |
| mal- | pdanek: as the main porter for fp2 I think I have used that the most and haven't had problems with the sides | 22:22 |
| pdanek | mal-: good to hear | 22:22 |
| r0kk3rz | pdanek: ive also held a sfos fp2, its fine | 22:23 |
| phlixi | i remember the "bumper" of the n9 as beeing really bad | 22:23 |
| pdanek | the sides remind me my old N900 in Otterbox case | 22:23 |
| phlixi | ...in regards to sqype | 22:23 |
| pdanek | the Otterbox case for N900 was quite decent | 22:23 |
| phlixi | swype* | 22:23 |
| taaem | But the main differences between ports and official is android support and official OTAs that aren't involving the commandline i think and exchange sync | 22:23 |
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| taaem | i can say sailfish is really nice with 2D glass like the iPhone has | 22:24 |
| M4rtinK | um, wasn't the N9 basically made for swipe ? | 22:24 |
| mal- | we'll if we can find some way make UI for OTA on ported phones | 22:24 |
| mal- | +see | 22:24 |
| phlixi | M4rtinK: sure, but with the bumper, its terrible | 22:25 |
| M4rtinK | like the glass is slightly curved and stuff | 22:25 |
| M4rtinK | oh that thing | 22:25 |
| phlixi | yep | 22:25 |
| M4rtinK | don't use it :) | 22:25 |
| pdanek | Why the hell has Turing phone some "Wallaby Magstream" port instead of MicroUSB? | 22:25 |
| phlixi | without umper:i think best formfactor ever | 22:25 |
| M4rtinK | security by obscurity :) | 22:25 |
| phlixi | lol | 22:26 |
| the_mgt | pdanek: for escurity reasons? it is not penetratable. no headphone and no sdcard, either | 22:26 |
| phlixi | unusable due to bumper | 22:26 |
| the_mgt | also, waterproofness | 22:26 |
| M4rtinK | yeah and that's also bullshit :) | 22:26 |
| pdanek | the_mgt: wait wait..... turing has no 3.5mm jack? only that one port? | 22:26 |
| r0kk3rz | wallabys are famous for their weatherproofness | 22:26 |
| r0kk3rz | and all round indestructabillity | 22:26 |
| M4rtinK | there are waterproof jacks as well as waterproof USB ports | 22:26 |
| the_mgt | pdanek: yep, but they pack a bt headphone in the box | 22:26 |
| pdanek | Turing is no go then | 22:27 |
| M4rtinK | well, good luck finding a charger in the wild | 22:27 |
| pdanek | it's ugly anyway | 22:27 |
| the_mgt | that is what i was thinking, M4rtinK | 22:27 |
| pdanek | let's hope Intex will be decent | 22:27 |
| taaem | hope is all we have | 22:27 |
| pdanek | actually.... I take any Intex | 22:27 |
| pdanek | even just 2GB ram | 22:27 |
| M4rtinK | still can help against usb killers, flashing attacks & hid devices hiding in chargers | 22:28 |
| phlixi | how much has the jp1301? | 22:28 |
| r0kk3rz | taaem: thats not true, you could contribute to glacier or porting phones or something | 22:28 |
| phlixi | (ram) | 22:28 |
| M4rtinK | as no one would probably bother with these for a non mainstream connector | 22:28 |
| M4rtinK | r0kk3rz: +1 | 22:28 |
| M4rtinK | or <advertisement>Universal Components</advertisement> ;-) | 22:29 |
| pdanek | basically Jolla has become unusable for me due to lack of ram | 22:29 |
| pdanek | give me anything with 2GB+ and I will be OK again | 22:29 |
| pdanek | 3GB ideally | 22:29 |
| fzk | solder? | 22:29 |
| phlixi | i have no idea what you do to your phone, i never had the feeling the jolla has not enough ram | 22:29 |
| taaem | r0kk3rz: I'm the porter of the Oneplus X | 22:29 |
| the_mgt | it is more the physical build I am dissatisfied with. and that relates to ram | 22:29 |
| pdanek | phlixi: then you don't multitask enough :D | 22:30 |
| taaem | OPX has 3GB \o/ | 22:30 |
| M4rtinK | phlixi: try to use the browser a bit :) | 22:30 |
| the_mgt | the battery connector issue sometimes affects ram and then apps get closed or dont even open | 22:30 |
| phlixi | i have 40 tabs open. | 22:30 |
| phlixi | no problem | 22:30 |
| fzk | wait until mwc, hopefully intex will show off something with more juice | 22:30 |
| M4rtinK | I had it killed by OOM killer when clicking on a link on a web pages many times | 22:30 |
| the_mgt | recently, the sdcard had issues. then there are simcard issues at times | 22:30 |
| pdanek | phlixi: background Android apps on jolla, that's what ate all my memory | 22:30 |
| M4rtinK | or even funnier - when switching from portrait to landscape :D | 22:31 |
| pdanek | phlixi: android apps in background: viber, telegram, line, whatsapp, skype, hangouts, gmail + sometimes running twitch in background... jolla browser, some couple more jolla apps | 22:32 |
| M4rtinK | BTW, another possible plus point of new hardware - hopefully no btrfs | 22:32 |
| pdanek | phlixi: oh and I forgot IRC | 22:32 |
| phlixi | pdanek: i doubt that doubliing ram will help you | 22:32 |
| pdanek | basically all those communicators are running for me constantly | 22:32 |
| pdanek | phlixi: then maybe tripling will | 22:32 |
| M4rtinK | phlixi: I meet with oom killer quite often just by running twablet, clock & browser | 22:32 |
| pdanek | I have no problem on my 2GB Nexus 5 | 22:32 |
| M4rtinK | all there regularly get killed | 22:33 |
| phlixi | well, i guess that is what apple had in mind when they "invented" push for their os... (and wasnt there something similar for the n900? maybe with the name of a small animal?) | 22:33 |
| taaem | phlixi: you mean like gcm? | 22:34 |
| phlixi | taaem: i have no idea what gcm is | 22:34 |
| pdanek | guys | 22:36 |
| pdanek | Will Intex phone receive updates from Jolla? | 22:36 |
| pdanek | or the updates will be pushed by Intex with some delay? | 22:36 |
| r0kk3rz | pdanek: why would they do that? | 22:36 |
| taaem | phlixi: google cloud messaging, works like this server -> google cloud server -> google play services -> starts the app and posts the notification | 22:36 |
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| phlixi | i never had the idea that the updates would not come directly ota from jolla (aplle/windows style) since its one usp that the jolla gets frequent updates | 22:37 |
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| pdanek | right | 22:37 |
| phlixi | however, there is nothing with substances that backs this asumption, thus it is surely possible its more "google style" | 22:38 |
| pdanek | so Intex could be good choice | 22:38 |
| pdanek | I guess any of us can find Indian friend / colleague with family back in India to reship the phone | 22:38 |
| pdanek | I already secured my guy, ready to order from snapdeal :D | 22:38 |
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| pdanek | and with Intex cheap prices.... who cares about no warranty etc. | 22:39 |
| taaem | shouldn't intex be available internationally? | 22:40 |
| taaem | i remeber somebody said that | 22:40 |
| taaem | pdanek: ^ | 22:41 |
| fzk | now when youre talking updates, do you think people that get the tablet will get any updates? | 22:41 |
| taaem | fzk: why not? | 22:41 |
| fzk | well, since they "killed it" | 22:41 |
| the_mgt | I heard there already were tablet updates | 22:41 |
| the_mgt | isn't it always a questio of trust? when I bought my Nokia C7, they claimed to offer 4 major updates until 2016 | 22:42 |
| the_mgt | who could have foreseen that they were going down the drain that fast | 22:43 |
| pdanek | the_mgt: Symbian doesn't get any updates anymore? | 22:43 |
| phlixi | lol | 22:43 |
| pdanek | I thought they do some minor, security updates or something | 22:44 |
| the_mgt | I thought all nokia servers were shut down | 22:44 |
| fzk | symbian was probably the nicest ive used | 22:44 |
| fzk | (before good touch phones started coming) | 22:44 |
| the_mgt | anyway, there was one proper major update to symbian^3, the second one b0rked what was good in the first one. I guess they were called anna and belle. the two others never came | 22:45 |
| the_mgt | and belle was more of a hack job, in my opinion | 22:45 |
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