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| Pawky | ok... and how does one go about wanting to send a downloaded zip file through bluetooth from the GUI? | 05:34 |
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| coderus | bluetooth files sending is so ancient thing for me... | 07:14 |
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| _inte_ | hello | 10:06 |
| _inte_ | https://together.jolla.com/question/113827/poll-bring-back-old-gestures-and-cover-actions-or-keep-the-new-interface | 10:06 |
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| _inte_ | If you are in the mood for voting, please vote :) | 10:07 |
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| coderus | most peoples likes update | 10:09 |
| _inte_ | oh, someone already voted for the new style | 10:09 |
| _inte_ | coderus ha, that was YOU. I know you like the new style :) | 10:09 |
| coderus | and i told you should think of it like about new homesceen, not change of old one, and forget about old features | 10:10 |
| _inte_ | coderus yes i know but I have no idea which style the majority of people prefer | 10:10 |
| _inte_ | there are a bunch of complains on tjc as well | 10:10 |
| _inte_ | and as i wrote, most people who LIKE the new style dont complain | 10:10 |
| _inte_ | or even write posting about how great the new arrangement is | 10:10 |
| coderus | yeah, and how much is that bunch? 10-20 users? pff | 10:11 |
| _inte_ | I have no clue | 10:11 |
| _inte_ | https://together.jolla.com/question/107134/solving-the-cover-actions/ | 10:12 |
| _inte_ | 110 upvotes | 10:12 |
| _inte_ | not too small | 10:12 |
| coderus | sure, but how much really complains, and how much get used to? | 10:12 |
| _inte_ | dont know | 10:13 |
| _inte_ | you neither | 10:13 |
| _inte_ | therefore i put in the poll | 10:13 |
| coderus | :) | 10:13 |
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| _inte_ | in 1.0 we could swipe aside from home as well | 10:13 |
| _inte_ | get the apps from below | 10:13 |
| _inte_ | and by edge swipe, reach the eventsscreen from everywhere we were | 10:14 |
| _inte_ | why has the events screen to become another homescreen now? | 10:14 |
| _inte_ | i quite dont get it | 10:14 |
| _inte_ | we had the ambience switcher aside the homescreen before | 10:14 |
| coderus | go to settings and enable left side sipe to eventsview? | 10:14 |
| _inte_ | that could be the caroussell now | 10:14 |
| _inte_ | coderus did that but as i stated before | 10:15 |
| _inte_ | i still swipe to the wrong side | 10:15 |
| _inte_ | depending on which hand i use | 10:15 |
| coderus | you get used to :) | 10:15 |
| _inte_ | right hand: i use my thumb to push the app away to the left side, that works | 10:15 |
| _inte_ | pushing the app away with my left hand leads me to the events notification screen | 10:16 |
| _inte_ | thats why i find it unintuitive | 10:16 |
| coderus | i have different opinion :) | 10:17 |
| _inte_ | not to mention the moving the thumb into your hand is a somewhat ununsual gesture | 10:17 |
| _inte_ | I know :) | 10:17 |
| coderus | also if you want to change something mae a patch | 10:17 |
| _inte_ | wow, 4:1 | 10:17 |
| coderus | if jolla change homescreen it will hurt even more | 10:17 |
| _inte_ | looks bad for me :) | 10:17 |
| _inte_ | ha, 3:2! | 10:19 |
| _inte_ | :) | 10:19 |
| _inte_ | its almost like the soccer world cup :) | 10:19 |
| ggabriel_ | <troll>never heard of a soccer world cup</troll> | 10:20 |
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| _inte_ | hehe | 10:20 |
| coderus | i think when we receive tablets everyone understand why things was changed | 10:20 |
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| _inte_ | mh, 20views but only 5 polls. People dont seem to care | 10:21 |
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| _inte_ | coderus: yes thats true now its rather a tablet ui | 10:21 |
| _inte_ | however, why not make the new style optional | 10:22 |
| _inte_ | like that mobile users can still choose the old style? | 10:22 |
| coderus | you need 100 more developers then to support to branches | 10:22 |
| _inte_ | as you said, if it could be solved with a patch, it could be an official setting | 10:22 |
| coderus | and one will be avays better and more popular | 10:23 |
| coderus | if thing need settings it was bad designed | 10:23 |
| chem|st | _inte_: if you make both sides the same action, it is always swipe twice to get to events, that way your muscle memory can be trained to it | 10:23 |
| _inte_ | chem|st: true | 10:24 |
| chem|st | and it isn't just a "design" | 10:24 |
| Nicd- | _inte_: the options are too big to be able to vote. I commented there | 10:24 |
| chem|st | the mechanics got changed so the new UI does work a little different now | 10:25 |
| _inte_ | Nicd-: its only ment to get a rough idea | 10:25 |
| coderus | yeah, i always see how people dont want to solve own problems and want whole things to change just for them :D | 10:25 |
| _inte_ | i have the opinion that the edge swipes are all gone for home with the new release, but I don't really understand why | 10:25 |
| chem|st | coderus: +1 people do behave like their corner-case is everyones issue | 10:26 |
| Nicd- | _inte_: I want the cover swipes but I think the events view is better now | 10:26 |
| Nicd- | so I cannot vote | 10:26 |
| chem|st | _inte_: what the hell are you talking about? | 10:26 |
| chem|st | Nicd-: they duplicated gestures to have the android 'push a desktop' look and feel | 10:27 |
| Nicd- | chem|st: I don't know what that means or how it is related to me :P | 10:28 |
| chem|st | solving the coveractions is as easy as that, return inside horizontal pulls to covers and get the fck out! | 10:28 |
| chem|st | Nicd-: there are no cover swipes in SFOS terms | 10:29 |
| Nicd- | there used to be | 10:29 |
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| chem|st | Nicd-: you call swipes that are in SFOS terms gestures from outside, so swiping covers from outside was never a thing | 10:29 |
| Nicd- | oh you know what I meant | 10:30 |
| chem|st | semantics I know but we are now 2 years in and people are still mixing this up | 10:30 |
| Nicd- | are you the SFOS police? | 10:30 |
| _inte_ | chem|st: i dont really know android but from what i know from android i really hate it. Even Symbian was more intuitive than android :) | 10:30 |
| chem|st | Nicd-: no, I am just fed by the mixed up confusion about pulls and swipes | 10:30 |
| Nicd- | personally I couldn't care less | 10:31 |
| Nicd- | as long as it's clear from the context | 10:31 |
| _inte_ | hehe | 10:31 |
| FireFly | I miss the old cover actions too | 10:32 |
| ggabriel | chem|st: not sure you can bring horiz swipes to activate cover actions any more | 10:32 |
| chem|st | the actual problem is that jolla wants to drag in android users | 10:32 |
| ggabriel | due to the ability of having more than 9 covers | 10:32 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: pulls, and why not? | 10:32 |
| ggabriel | sorry, pulls | 10:32 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: WTF HAS VERTICAL TO DO WITH HORIZONTAL? | 10:32 |
| ggabriel | chem|st: it's never 100% vertial nor 100% horizontal | 10:33 |
| _inte_ | chem|st: in former sfos, we could swipe aside from home (to the ambience selection) by edge swipe, and where able to use cover actions by internal swipe. We could reach events from the bottom by edge swipe, but could reach the apps by internal swipe | 10:33 |
| _inte_ | now there are no dedicated edge swipe actions for the home screen any more | 10:33 |
| ggabriel | so, you may want to scroll down (think one handed) | 10:33 |
| stephg | ggabriel: you're correct | 10:33 |
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| ggabriel | and your gesture could be confused with a cover action | 10:34 |
| stephg | because events is now no longer an action from the edge the old cover behaviour (which I sorely miss) can't come back | 10:34 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: you are here for so long and I am really in a bad mood right now, so do not get me started as for your comment the whole UI is going to blow up always even in the current state as each direction is a direction of any FUCKING DAMN GESTURE! | 10:34 |
| _inte_ | chem|st: its a worse idea to drag in android user by adopting their lame interface | 10:34 |
| ggabriel | chem|st: it's just an opinion/observation :) | 10:34 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: why should a scroll down be confused with a horizontal cover action? | 10:34 |
| ggabriel | which i discussed here a few days ago | 10:34 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: no it is not, it is just thinking wrong | 10:35 |
| _inte_ | stephg: wasnt events an edge swipe from the bottom? | 10:35 |
| ggabriel | chem|st: grab the phone with one hand, get an unbrella on the other hand, walk on the street | 10:35 |
| _inte_ | stephg: edge swipe from the side was ment to reach the ambience selection | 10:35 |
| ggabriel | try to scroll down, you'll likely do a diagonal gesture | 10:35 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: from what you say, scrolling 9+ apps would land you on the events view as it can be confused by one another | 10:35 |
| stephg | _inte_ I mean the new events | 10:35 |
| _inte_ | now sidewise swiping leads to events | 10:35 |
| ggabriel | chem|st: events? | 10:35 |
| ggabriel | that's a swipe... | 10:36 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: nope... 2.0 UI is pull | 10:36 |
| _inte_ | stephg: yeah, as i said, put it events to it was before and leave it similar to the blackberry hub | 10:36 |
| ggabriel | chem|st: but from the edge, not within the screen | 10:36 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: NOPE WITHIN THE SCREEN | 10:36 |
| stephg | _inte_ that I disagree with, I like having the apps accessible from any screen | 10:36 |
| ggabriel | i'm talking about placing your thumb on the screen, scrolling up/down awkwardly | 10:36 |
| ggabriel | chem|st: i stand corrected... | 10:37 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: and INSIDE pulls and OUTSIDE swipes are the same on home-screen | 10:37 |
| ggabriel | ok, so this is yet another reason why pulls for cover actions won't work | 10:37 |
| ggabriel | and why jolla decided to make them buttons | 10:38 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: are you serious? | 10:38 |
| ggabriel | i am | 10:38 |
| ggabriel | how do you tell the difference between going to the events screen and a cover action? | 10:38 |
| ggabriel | do you have to aim to the empty space between covers? | 10:38 |
| stephg | ggabriel: you are correct | 10:39 |
| Nicd- | you could swipe from edge of screen to go to events screen | 10:39 |
| _inte_ | ggabriel: reaching events could be an edge swipe | 10:39 |
| stephg | if the new events were a swipe from the edge then the old cover behaviour could come back | 10:39 |
| _inte_ | as it was before (from the bottom) | 10:39 |
| stephg | as it is at the moment, it can't | 10:39 |
| _inte_ | stephg: jep | 10:39 |
| ggabriel | chem|st: mind you... I'm talking about a use case where you're holding the phone awkardly, one handed | 10:39 |
| ggabriel | for anything else, ofc it'd work | 10:39 |
| tadzik | er | 10:39 |
| tadzik | I don't see how that changes anything | 10:39 |
| _inte_ | maybe jolla wants to adapt the os to android phones with thin edges (which cant perform edge-swipes from the side). IMHO the only explanation. | 10:40 |
| stephg | ggabriel: I used the old cover actions when on my bike as I can forward/skip tracks without looking at my phone | 10:40 |
| ggabriel | _inte_: i'm talking about how things are now | 10:40 |
| tadzik | I can still sideswipe perfectly one-handed, otherwise how would I change apps | 10:40 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: then you are talking about a problem you already had with 1.0UI! | 10:40 |
| _inte_ | tadzik: how what changes? | 10:40 |
| _inte_ | tadzik: what cant you see | 10:40 |
| tadzik | _inte_: what do you mean? | 10:40 |
| ggabriel | chem|st: didn't i need edge swipe/push on 1.0? | 10:40 |
| _inte_ | [12:39] <tadzik> I don't see how that changes anything | 10:41 |
| ggabriel | (and I did have a coupe of mishaps, yes :) ) | 10:41 |
| tadzik | _inte_: have you noticed that I'm a proponent of edge swipes? | 10:41 |
| chem|st | omg people you are so seriously unable to think out of a box... your box... | 10:41 |
| ggabriel | stephg: hehe, I bet that must have been comfortable | 10:41 |
| stephg | tadzik: that's the point: when in an app you need to swipe from the edge. When on the homescreen you don't | 10:41 |
| _inte_ | tadzik: still but...? | 10:41 |
| tadzik | _inte_: that reffered to "holding the phone one handed" | 10:41 |
| stephg | that means the old cover behaviour ccan't come back | 10:41 |
| chem|st | reading lines in between "but it was a bottom swipe to go to events before" | 10:41 |
| _inte_ | ah | 10:41 |
| _inte_ | i think edge-swiping could be replaced by the home button on android devices | 10:41 |
| chem|st | for sure it was a bottom swipe, but how is taht in any way relevant? | 10:41 |
| _inte_ | i think edge-swiping could be replaced by the home button on android devices WITH A THIN FRAME | 10:42 |
| chem|st | _inte_: ? | 10:42 |
| Tegu | no | 10:42 |
| _inte_ | chem|st: i was just thinking that jolla might drop edge swipes to make the os compatinle with thin-frame android handsets | 10:43 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: horizontal 1.0 pulls have been coveractions, swipes been partner-space or ambience switcher | 10:43 |
| Tegu | please no :< | 10:43 |
| stephg | ggabriel: I just really miss them, the cover actions I mean. I know (and like!) having media controls on the lockscreen but it's not the same, IMO it's only 1 of 2 regressions, everythign else is fab) | 10:43 |
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| chem|st | _inte_: do not... porters, wrong channel | 10:44 |
| _inte_ | chem|st: was just speculation anyways | 10:44 |
| ggabriel | stephg: agree in general, miss them too but not the end of the world. and i like ios's poor attempt at copying them | 10:45 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: in 2.0 horizontal pulls and swipes do exactly the same | 10:45 |
| ggabriel | chem|st: yup, understood, that's why i say that using gestures for cover actions won't be comfortable/accurate | 10:45 |
| ggabriel | (one handed and all that) | 10:45 |
| ggabriel | so i'm happy with the buttons for now | 10:45 |
| stephg | ggabriel: :) | 10:46 |
| _inte_ | I could also set up a second poll, like button covers vs. swipe-covers (with edge swipes) | 10:46 |
| stephg | there is an advantage to the buttons:- means you can in principle now have more than 2 cover actions | 10:46 |
| _inte_ | but i dont want to make things complicated | 10:46 |
| chem|st | stephg: 1 of 2? No way to lock phone with a gesture, presences deep down in settings, cover-actions, fav-launcher-bar... | 10:46 |
| chem|st | stephg: what is your second | 10:46 |
| ggabriel | oh, i miss the fav launcher too | 10:47 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: using buttons for cover-actions is?= | 10:47 |
| _inte_ | stephg: jolla wants to limit possible coveractions to only one | 10:47 |
| ggabriel | but i have a tohkbd :P | 10:47 |
| chem|st | _inte_: that is not true | 10:47 |
| ggabriel | chem|st: haven't ranked them tbh... i miss the fav launcher more than the gestures for cover actions | 10:47 |
| stephg | chem|st: the mystery what-closed-my-app cover thing | 10:47 |
| _inte_ | what is the fac-launcher? | 10:48 |
| chem|st | stephg: that is your 2nd regression? | 10:48 |
| Yaniel | I don't really mis the fav launcher | 10:48 |
| _inte_ | fav | 10:48 |
| stephg | yeah, that and the covers are the only things I think serious | 10:48 |
| chem|st | oom-killer leaving behind a cover is a regression? | 10:48 |
| stephg | the buried presence thing I think will get fixed | 10:48 |
| Yaniel | since I always opened the app grid before noticing that I don't have to | 10:48 |
| chem|st | that is a feature | 10:48 |
| _inte_ | what is the fav-launcher? | 10:48 |
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| stephg | chem|st: it's not just OOM killer | 10:48 |
| stephg | it's anything | 10:48 |
| Yaniel | _inte_: the 4 icons at the bottom of the homescreen | 10:48 |
| chem|st | _inte_: home-screen favbar | 10:48 |
| stephg | any android app with a back button that has a service behaves wrong | 10:48 |
| _inte_ | ah yeah thats something I really miss as well | 10:49 |
| stephg | chem|st: hell even fingerterm exiting via the shell cleanly behaves wrong | 10:49 |
| chem|st | stephg: that kills apps, it is oom-killer or the app crashes | 10:49 |
| stephg | chem|st: not the case with android apps | 10:49 |
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| chem|st | stephg: that is a bug and already said to be fixed | 10:49 |
| stephg | (some) android apps | 10:49 |
| _inte_ | we can still have some hope since we're only at 1.9.28, not 2.0 yet :) | 10:49 |
| chem|st | stephg: it is the case with android apps, use the abck button or internal X for closing and the cover stay | 10:50 |
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| stephg | chem|st: correct, I personally think the 'feature' is baffling | 10:50 |
| stephg | if the OOM killer has killed it, I don't really care that I now know that it may have been the OOM killer that did it | 10:51 |
| stephg | (or something else) | 10:51 |
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| _inte_ | https://together.jolla.com/question/113838/poll-bring-back-old-cover-actions-swipes/ | 10:56 |
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| _inte_ | too bad I cant vote on my own answers :) | 10:58 |
| Tegu | create lots of throwaway acconts | 11:00 |
| _inte_ | hehe 10 minute email :) | 11:00 |
| _inte_ | Tegu: no, I'm upright | 11:01 |
| _inte_ | And I guess jolla could still look into the votes closer if the would want to | 11:01 |
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| _inte_ | y | 11:03 |
| chem|st | stephg: all android apps I use the cover stays if I do not close it with swype down | 11:04 |
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| chem|st | _inte_: stop that polling nonsense please | 11:05 |
| _inte_ | chem|st: yes but this is a confirmed bug or not? | 11:06 |
| _inte_ | chem|st: ok | 11:06 |
| _inte_ | no more polls for now | 11:06 |
| _inte_ | actually, jolla should do that, not me | 11:06 |
| chem|st | _inte_: the whole askbot thing is a huge poll | 11:06 |
| _inte_ | askbot? | 11:06 |
| chem|st | _inte_: together, the software is called askbot | 11:07 |
| _inte_ | ah | 11:07 |
| _inte_ | but, people tend to like the coveractions swipes over the buttons | 11:07 |
| _inte_ | its 4:0 | 11:07 |
| _inte_ | would have thought some people might defend the buttons | 11:07 |
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| Lieke_ | i don't really care either way | 11:08 |
| chem|st | _inte_: ggabriel might defend them but we already have 3 questions open about the cover-actions and one iirc above 100 votes | 11:09 |
| chem|st | Lieke_: so you do not use it yet | 11:09 |
| ggabriel | i'm not defending the buttons for cover actions btw, just pointing out why bringing the gestures back could be a problem | 11:09 |
| Lieke_ | yeah, never used it much, just for the media player | 11:09 |
| _inte_ | sure but as i stated, these questions only give voice to people who disagree with them, not to people who defend them | 11:09 |
| ggabriel | but maybe i'm wrong and with some ui tweaking it'd work | 11:09 |
| * ggabriel shurgs | 11:09 | |
| _inte_ | its somewhat unfair | 11:09 |
| stephg | ggabriel: I think you're right, if the event swipe were made an edge swipe, then the old covers could come back from what I can tell | 11:11 |
| chem|st | _inte_: why? you can downvote it... that is what it is there for | 11:11 |
| _inte_ | if you keep reading comments on german news sides you could easily get the impression that entire Germany is a bunch of racist asholes, even though its only a very tiny (though loud) minority | 11:11 |
| _inte_ | chem|st: sure you could downvote, but that is not visible | 11:11 |
| Stskeeps | i'm personally surprised how many -positive- comments there are about sf2.0 ui | 11:11 |
| ggabriel | having said all that i've said, the current cover actions leave room for you to accidentally press them when selecting an application | 11:11 |
| Stskeeps | usually positive comments aren't the loudest | 11:11 |
| ggabriel | but i think it took me 1 day to get used to that | 11:11 |
| Stskeeps | or at all talking about it | 11:11 |
| _inte_ | Stskeeps: exactely. | 11:12 |
| tadzik | Stskeeps: yep, guilty as charged :) | 11:12 |
| chem|st | Stskeeps: the events was a good job, apart of missing presences | 11:12 |
| stephg | Stskeeps: it's an improvement in nearly all aspects | 11:13 |
| tadzik | I now wonder, given that OOM now not only kills apps but also pretends that it didn't, should apps have an android-like guideline of starting up in the same state as they were before being closed down | 11:13 |
| Stskeeps | tadzik: or at least save state at switching to cover.. | 11:14 |
| ggabriel | tadzik: you mean like fbreader? :P | 11:14 |
| ggabriel | (or browser) | 11:14 |
| chem|st | there is always room to improve though, the loudest bits are where the UI got dumbed down, as teh reasons are understandable but not valid from a 2y in customer point of view, Jolla removed features that made me buy their products... | 11:14 |
| _inte_ | chem|st: +1 | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | chem|st: i've seen how troubled people were with sailfish 1 vs 2 though, in MWC | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | within 30 seconds they walked away | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | and that's how much it takes to loose a sale | 11:16 |
| Stskeeps | -> no sustainability | 11:16 |
| Stskeeps | personally i prefer interfaces that grow in complexity as you learn to use it | 11:16 |
| chem|st | Stskeeps: I know, I have tried that with friends on 1.0 too | 11:16 |
| Yaniel | the thing with 1.0 was that you had to actually use it for it to make sense | 11:16 |
| Stskeeps | ie, i prefer driving a bicycle, not a tricycle | 11:16 |
| _inte_ | Stskeeps: what do you mean, people could handle v2 easier than v1 or couldnt adapt to v1? | 11:16 |
| Stskeeps | _inte_: much much easier in v2 | 11:16 |
| Yaniel | it is easier to grasp by physically trying it than just seeing someone demonstrate | 11:17 |
| Stskeeps | the difference between MWC this year and last year was amazing | 11:17 |
| _inte_ | Stskeeps: v1 wasnt hard to learn! | 11:17 |
| Stskeeps | it wasn't | 11:17 |
| Stskeeps | but it took more than 30 seconds :) | 11:17 |
| chem|st | Stskeeps: the inside pulls make much more sense to people coming from iOS and android | 11:17 |
| _inte_ | Stskeeps: maybe 5 minutes | 11:17 |
| stephg | biggest thing I found with v1 was that (especially android folks) would be swiping and tapping at the screen like hyperactive children | 11:17 |
| chem|st | Stskeeps: and well, buttons and a statusbar | 11:17 |
| Stskeeps | _inte_: and at 5 minutes your thoughts are already about what groceries you need to buy in the supermarket | 11:17 |
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| _inte_ | then make it switchable, like DAU-UI for new customers and the old gestures for people who have already adapted | 11:18 |
| Stskeeps | two different UIs at same time is a mess | 11:18 |
| stephg | it's like android engenders ADHD or something :P | 11:18 |
| _inte_ | could be just a setting | 11:18 |
| Stskeeps | i'm not saying kindergarden ux and advanced ux | 11:18 |
| _inte_ | its not even a feature change | 11:18 |
| _inte_ | its just about the arangement | 11:18 |
| Stskeeps | i'm saying a ui that changes according to how much you get settled in he ui | 11:18 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:18 |
| chem|st | Stskeeps: I understand where it is coming from, but instead of dumbing down the whole UI, a beginner mode would serve all your customers instead of making your existing fanbase question you | 11:18 |
| ggabriel | Stskeeps: well, you can't get people used to it unless you do what apple does: show every single silly feature in an advert and make people think that it's very cool | 11:19 |
| _inte_ | Stskeeps: allow it as an option. I guess even in android they have a "lame" UI with big buttons and less options | 11:19 |
| Stskeeps | i'm not a designer fwiw | 11:19 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:19 |
| ggabriel | me neither, sym+f1 launches terminal \o/ | 11:19 |
| _inte_ | 7:1 for the coverswipes :) | 11:20 |
| Stskeeps | in practice i'm more of a believer in a ux experience that adapts itself to the user | 11:20 |
| Stskeeps | and allows user to customize it to their needs | 11:20 |
| Stskeeps | as people do, with patches | 11:21 |
| chem|st | Stskeeps: for that you need a JollaPatchSystem instead of what we have now | 11:21 |
| Stskeeps | sure | 11:21 |
| _inte_ | who is misc11? | 11:22 |
| _inte_ | chem|st: is that you? | 11:22 |
| chem|st | _inte_: I am chem|st... | 11:22 |
| _inte_ | ok:( | 11:22 |
| _inte_ | :) | 11:22 |
| chem|st | what a question ;) | 11:22 |
| _inte_ | hehe | 11:22 |
| ggabriel | identity issues? | 11:23 |
| chem|st | ggabriel: I sometimes have... I am mayor, gouvernor, dostortugas or chem|st | 11:23 |
| ggabriel | i like dostortugas | 11:24 |
| Tofe | We should bring the patch system thingy to a community meeting (or did we already and I missed it?) | 11:26 |
| stephg | Tofe: on Thursday | 11:26 |
| Stskeeps | Tofe: tld;r we're happy with it, but we can't possibly QA it or provide care for those | 11:26 |
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| ggabriel | upgrading is tricky too | 11:27 |
| chem|st | Stskeeps: you are missing something like maemo-extras | 11:27 |
| Tofe | Stskeeps: but maybe there's a middle line, where we could install some patches without fearing for every upgrade | 11:27 |
| chem|st | where community does QA | 11:27 |
| Stskeeps | Tofe: it's hard given the structure of the OS | 11:27 |
| chem|st | UI pieces would need to be broken out into their own packages to properly depend on stuff | 11:28 |
| Stskeeps | EA can help a lot of this fwiw | 11:28 |
| Stskeeps | morbid question, if you had a choice of what kind of device jolla should make beyond phone and tablet, what would it be? | 11:30 |
| Laxtlo_ | Apple users loves apple cause nothing change ever. | 11:30 |
| coderus | Stskeeps: laptop please or netbook | 11:30 |
| Tofe | chem|st: maybe PatchManager could have its own "extra" repo, or something like that | 11:30 |
| Stskeeps | coderus: ugh :) | 11:30 |
| Laxtlo_ | i do hate devices that never change :) | 11:31 |
| coderus | i'm not using watches, so | 11:31 |
| Stskeeps | coderus: i can't imagine the kind of difficulties that'll happen given desktop linux's usual populace of discussions | 11:31 |
| * Stskeeps uses macos x | 11:31 | |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:31 |
| Stskeeps | anybody that's coming to the berlin sailfishos meetup tonight? | 11:32 |
| coderus | Stskeeps: just making laptop should be easier than tablet/phone:) | 11:32 |
| coderus | also id like to have more tablets sizes and phones :D | 11:35 |
| Tofe | I'm not fond of smartwatches, phone is done, tablet too, phablet I never understood, leave laptop, desktop, and TVs. A TV ? | 11:35 |
| Stskeeps | coderus: you'd think.. a lot of different expectations | 11:35 |
| coderus | well, touchscreen tv with gestures? :D | 11:35 |
| Nicd- | a router! | 11:35 |
| coderus | i thought about tv, but no | 11:35 |
| Stskeeps | coderus: but nowadays with office 365 and such, it may indeed be easier | 11:36 |
| Nicd- | think about it, Sailfish router or ethernet switch | 11:36 |
| Stskeeps | but then what's the competition with chromeos | 11:36 |
| chem|st | Tofe: I have no idea how garage and maemo extras works, but how about you get enough people interested so someone actually feels the need to put work into it | 11:36 |
| coderus | what the purpose of sailfishos thne | 11:36 |
| coderus | its gestures os | 11:36 |
| Tofe | coderus: tablet-controlled tv ? | 11:37 |
| coderus | put mer on router if you want so | 11:37 |
| chem|st | coderus: it is buttons *cough* gestures os now | 11:37 |
| Nicd- | coderus: I was joking :) | 11:37 |
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| Tofe | Nicd-: congrats, you just initiated a new Mer fronted project! ;) | 11:38 |
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| Tofe | frontend* | 11:38 |
| Stskeeps | well, i see jolla as people powered, privacy and personalizable | 11:38 |
| Stskeeps | different device types doesn't have to be tied to sailfishos | 11:38 |
| Stskeeps | in my book | 11:38 |
| Stskeeps | but share maybe ux or ideals | 11:38 |
| coderus | Stskeeps: okay then | 11:38 |
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| coderus | i read your question as for sailfishos :) | 11:39 |
| Stskeeps | nod | 11:39 |
| Laxtlo_ | privacy but normal user doesnt give a fuck about privacy...no money /dev/null | 11:39 |
| Stskeeps | Laxtlo_: that's what marketing wants us to think.. | 11:39 |
| Stskeeps | in fact, people do | 11:39 |
| rigo | if you take privacy seriously you all start to bloody sandbox the bloody android apps with a UI for selected permissions | 11:39 |
| rigo | :) | 11:39 |
| Stskeeps | rigo: hearing you loud and clear | 11:39 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:40 |
| chem|st | Laxtlo_: so as Jolla is now aiming at $users we will never see SFsecure? ;) | 11:40 |
| Laxtlo_ | sts : not enough | 11:40 |
| coderus | then i need smart multicooker with people powered cookbook, like a recie of day from sailor X | 11:40 |
| rigo | chem|st: that' s the wrong approach. 99% of the people with a jolla buy one to escape from platform lock-in | 11:40 |
| Stskeeps | coderus: meh, we're poor sailors, here's a thousand recipes on how to make ramen delicious.. | 11:41 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:41 |
| rigo | chem|st: if it is even more secure, fine, but I doubt jolla will ever get as secure as an unjailbroken iphone last generation | 11:41 |
| Laxtlo_ | if normal wanker even knows what is sandbox. If you show him how you should jerk off using sandbox he would use it ;) | 11:41 |
| chem|st | rigo: we are talking about the avg Joe now, not us fanboys that do not like to be boxed in | 11:41 |
| coderus | Stskeeps: its about community | 11:41 |
| coderus | you loading some ingredients inside | 11:41 |
| coderus | selecting it in menu | 11:42 |
| rigo | chem|st: I also talk about the average joe who is starting to realize that he's just the product | 11:42 |
| chem|st | rigo: or what do you think why the dumbing down UI cahnges? | 11:42 |
| coderus | and it suggest what you can cook :D | 11:42 |
| chem|st | rigo: those people are not avg | 11:42 |
| rigo | then start making money with the not-so-average. They are legion | 11:43 |
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| chem|st | rigo: then can I have my gestures UI back please? | 11:43 |
| * Stskeeps reads http://techliberation.com/2015/09/11/new-itif-study-on-privacy-panics | 11:43 | |
| rigo | jolla will never convince the "out-of-my-way-I-need-to-get-my-job-done-and-shit-on-every-collateral-damage" folks | 11:44 |
| * Stskeeps sometimes thinks we need to blow up current web, mobile phone/tablet market and fix things from ground up.. | 11:44 | |
| chem|st | rigo: avg joe is attracted by the performance, people are starting conversations with me, random on the street "why is your phone so fast?", "not android!", "how much?", "250.-", "WTF?" | 11:45 |
| rigo | chem|st: the answer came from Linus Torvalds when Gnome tried to "simplify". I think his comments were not really appropriate in an US or youth context | 11:45 |
| rigo | chem|st: that too. My daughter wouldn't want an iphone anymore. It is too cool to have a jolla :) | 11:45 |
| coderus | well ,smartwatches should work, but to get any watches which i can use to install mer on it, here in russia, i need to sell my kidney, which i dont want to do :D | 11:46 |
| Stskeeps | coderus: android wear ones you can | 11:46 |
| rigo | chem|st: getting rid of gestures just means making things bad instead of layering them | 11:46 |
| Stskeeps | sony sw3, lg's , etc.. | 11:46 |
| Stskeeps | but that might be a kidney thing | 11:46 |
| coderus | i know, but it costs too much here | 11:46 |
| Stskeeps | coderus: what would be an acceptable price? | 11:47 |
| Stskeeps | in RUB is fine | 11:47 |
| coderus | 12000 rub max for watches | 11:48 |
| coderus | it h=shouldnt cost more than primary phone | 11:48 |
| Stskeeps | that's higher than expected | 11:48 |
| coderus | all smartwatches now are overpriced | 11:49 |
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| rigo | smart watches? There are cheaper ones that are really neat | 11:49 |
| Stskeeps | you can get from factory mtk6572 based smartwatches for 5215 rub with 3g | 11:49 |
| Stskeeps | (80 usd) | 11:49 |
| coderus | well, pebble is fine, but | 11:49 |
| chem|st | coderus: fo that hardware... for those prices I wear a smartphone as a wristwatch | 11:49 |
| Stskeeps | of course they're solved for 400 eur in europe, but .. :) | 11:49 |
| Stskeeps | sold | 11:49 |
| coderus | watches with 3g, omg :D | 11:50 |
| coderus | for me it should be only phone assistant | 11:50 |
| coderus | and watches | 11:50 |
| Stskeeps | coderus: http://www.cnx-software.com/2013/11/17/zgpax-s5-android-4-0-smartwatch-features-a-dual-core-processor-a-sim-card-slot/ | 11:51 |
| coderus | it shuoldnt do any functions itself | 11:51 |
| Stskeeps | so basically external display | 11:51 |
| coderus | yeah, for notifications and some basic control of featues, like music player | 11:52 |
| Stskeeps | not a very creative use of a dual core computer on your arm :) | 11:52 |
| Stskeeps | with own sim slot | 11:52 |
| Laxtlo_ | i do have oneplusone and cyanogenmod installed and i like the gestures on it | 11:52 |
| coderus | Stskeeps: i said i dont need such watches with 3g :) | 11:53 |
| Stskeeps | nod | 11:53 |
| Stskeeps | ok, crossing border to germany | 11:53 |
| Stskeeps | bbl | 11:53 |
| Armadillo | bb | 11:53 |
| Nokius_work | Stskeeps: Wilkommen! | 11:53 |
| Armadillo | ^^ | 11:53 |
| coderus | what is the restricted items which can't be took abroad? :) | 11:53 |
| Nokius_work | Stskeeps, see u later | 11:53 |
| Laxtlo_ | and gestures is what i like in sailfishos and multitasking...and i am sure that normal user would love it also but they just dont know about it and ecosystem is a joke at the moment | 11:55 |
| Nokius_work | Laxtlo_: u can install SFOS on the o+ ask in #sailfishos-porters for more | 11:56 |
| Laxtlo_ | i just scare that the whole sailfish os will stay nerds thing but hopefully nlt | 11:56 |
| Laxtlo_ | nokius : yes i know but dealer dont work | 11:56 |
| Tofe | coderus: I disagree with the "simple remote display" kind of smartwatch. If a smartwatch just displays things sent wireless, the "smart" part is a joke | 11:57 |
| Laxtlo_ | nokius : thanks for tip | 11:57 |
| Nokius_work | Laxtlo_, I know we have to try to fix it :) | 11:57 |
| Laxtlo_ | that would be so cooool ! | 11:59 |
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| Armadillo | the Oneplus Two with dual sim support would be great | 12:02 |
| Aciid | coming soon from dealexpress | 12:08 |
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| _inte_ | Actually I never read a negativ review on the jolla-phone about the gestures being too complex. Where does this tale come from? | 12:19 |
| ggabriel | _inte_: there are several reviews by "experts" saying that the gestures in 1.0 were too complex | 12:19 |
| Laxtlo_ | people are just so stupid specially apple users | 12:20 |
| _inte_ | still I never heard any media complain | 12:20 |
| Laxtlo_ | meaby stupid is wrong word ;)) | 12:20 |
| _inte_ | apple users wont buy a jolla anyways | 12:20 |
| _inte_ | apple users buy iphone | 12:21 |
| _inte_ | s | 12:21 |
| Laxtlo_ | people are so experienced to use ios | 12:21 |
| Laxtlo_ | or android | 12:21 |
| _inte_ | which makes sense in terms that it fits in their ecosystem | 12:21 |
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| ggabriel | _inte_: I don't particularly check tech crunch and alike but I did read the complaints, saw the videos etc | 12:21 |
| _inte_ | well, android | 12:21 |
| _inte_ | i think android is a mess | 12:21 |
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| _inte_ | whenever someone gives me an android phone i really dont know how to use it | 12:22 |
| _inte_ | especially settings | 12:22 |
| Armadillo | +1 | 12:22 |
| Temppu-Teme | i always use the search | 12:22 |
| Temppu-Teme | since it's a chore to find anything | 12:22 |
| Armadillo | had to fix a problem with the S3 of my mother at the weekend | 12:22 |
| _inte_ | i even asked on irc about how to get back in the menu on a galaxy s3 | 12:22 |
| Armadillo | I hate Android^^ | 12:22 |
| _inte_ | until I found out that there is a back-button which is not always lit | 12:23 |
| _inte_ | too complicated, really | 12:23 |
| Temppu-Teme | hmm | 12:23 |
| _inte_ | so, Jollas new agenda is to make SFOS as complicated as Android is? | 12:23 |
| Armadillo | and ar handsfree is still broken in latest CM for Galaxy S3 :( | 12:23 |
| Temppu-Teme | just as intuitive as sailfish OS, no? | 12:23 |
| _inte_ | I find android not intuitive at all | 12:24 |
| Temppu-Teme | i mean how does a user who is used to hardware buttons find out how to do anything (except tutorial) | 12:24 |
| _inte_ | every menu or app has its very own behavior | 12:24 |
| ggabriel | Temppu-Teme: tutorial | 12:24 |
| Temppu-Teme | give a Jolla to a friend and watch them struggle to even exit an app :P | 12:24 |
| ggabriel | or manual | 12:24 |
| _inte_ | Temppu-Teme: so the nex Jolla phone will eventually feature hardware buttons? | 12:24 |
| _inte_ | amazing | 12:25 |
| Temppu-Teme | dunno about that | 12:25 |
| Armadillo | Temppu-Teme lol sorry, but let someone on Android REALLY exit an app | 12:25 |
| _inte_ | who cares about android users | 12:25 |
| Armadillo | not just sending to background... | 12:25 |
| ggabriel | Armadillo: ok, that isn't too hard... | 12:25 |
| Temppu-Teme | just saying that if you seriously had trouble using the back button on android, jolla is not that much more intuitive :D | 12:25 |
| _inte_ | people dont buy a jolla because it feels like android, but rather because it does NOT feel like android | 12:25 |
| ggabriel | ios's approach is harder even | 12:25 |
| _inte_ | android sucks big time | 12:25 |
| _inte_ | Temppu-Teme: I just didnt know there was a back button because it wasnt lit! | 12:26 |
| Temppu-Teme | .. | 12:26 |
| Temppu-Teme | it's just there | 12:26 |
| Laxtlo_ | like i said people are stupid and lazy to learn anything new | 12:26 |
| Temppu-Teme | i mean.. i don't look at it :D | 12:26 |
| Armadillo | most of the people I talk never ever heard of Jolla, so the main problem might be another than the device usage ;) | 12:26 |
| _inte_ | ggabriel: hot to completly close apps on android? | 12:26 |
| _inte_ | isnt it long press, go to the taskmanager and find the app, close it? | 12:27 |
| Nicd- | thing is, you don't need to completely close apps on android | 12:27 |
| _inte_ | like on iOS | 12:27 |
| ggabriel | _inte_: press the button that brings all the applications, swipe the application you want to shut down | 12:27 |
| Nicd- | or iOS | 12:27 |
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| Temppu-Teme | _inte_: leaves daemons on background AFAIK | 12:27 |
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| _inte_ | Armadillo: exactly | 12:27 |
| ggabriel | in ios i remember you have to apply long press funkiness | 12:27 |
| Laxtlo_ | temppu-teme : i did give my phone to my wife and after 30 sec she give it back to my ;) | 12:27 |
| Nicd- | ggabriel: no longer | 12:27 |
| _inte_ | Armadillo: and that wouldnt change at all if jolla looks more like android | 12:27 |
| Nicd- | but you don't need to close apps on Android or iOS because they are designed that way | 12:28 |
| Armadillo | _inte_ ack | 12:28 |
| Nicd- | SF is not | 12:28 |
| _inte_ | The average people buy phone at their phone companies | 12:28 |
| Temppu-Teme | Laxtlo_: yeah, after a couple of the first tries i gave a 30 second tutorial before handing the phone over :) | 12:28 |
| Armadillo | Nicd- hmmmm.... no | 12:28 |
| ggabriel | Nicd-: nah, in my android i need to close applications | 12:28 |
| ggabriel | e.g., for xmpp client o reconnect it must die first | 12:28 |
| _inte_ | but here in Germany even if you show the people in the TCom or Vodafone shops they really never ever have heard about Jolla | 12:28 |
| Nicd- | the app does not follow the OS guidelines then | 12:28 |
| Armadillo | Nicd- if the device gets laggy because of bloated apps I want to shut down the one who consumes all my memory | 12:29 |
| ggabriel | Nicd-: android? os? guidelines? :) | 12:29 |
| Nicd- | Armadillo: yes, but their philosophy is that you shouldn't need to do that and they guide app makers toward that | 12:29 |
| baffer | Weird. Sound works only through headphones, but call sound works without headphones | 12:29 |
| _inte_ | So why would an average user go to a website he never heard about before and buy a phone he never heard about before when he could get an average android phone for free at his phone company | 12:29 |
| _inte_ | THAT is the problem | 12:29 |
| Nicd- | they have OS level controls on what the apps can do (Android has less) | 12:29 |
| Nicd- | Sailfish has nothing like that afaik, except delaying timers | 12:30 |
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| Armadillo | anyway | 12:30 |
| Armadillo | every time I have to use an Android device I feel castrated | 12:30 |
| _inte_ | hu, someone voted my entire poll down: https://together.jolla.com/question/113838/poll-bring-back-old-cover-actions-swipes/ | 12:31 |
| _inte_ | grr | 12:31 |
| _inte_ | Armadillo: true | 12:31 |
| rigo | _inte_: because the user is just so tired of android and some CCC jesus comes along and shows off :) | 12:31 |
| _inte_ | rigo: im not with CCC to often :) | 12:31 |
| Laxtlo_ | well i like android and specially cyanogenmod but samsung android based phones i hate | 12:31 |
| Laxtlo_ | but you can always change android version on your phone | 12:32 |
| _inte_ | Armadillo: Hehe like the Blackberry gui (Chen) when he was presenting their new Android device and he was desperatly trying to close an app by swiping down | 12:32 |
| _inte_ | :) | 12:32 |
| Laxtlo_ | try to do that in apple phone | 12:32 |
| Armadillo | _inte_ :D | 12:32 |
| _inte_ | Hey that could be a solution for Jolla as well: Build Android phones! /sarcasm | 12:32 |
| Laxtlo_ | lol | 12:33 |
| Laxtlo_ | like nokia phuahaa | 12:33 |
| _inte_ | Laxtlo_: Nokia? Aren't they licensing SailfishOS? :) | 12:34 |
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| Armadillo | are they? | 12:34 |
| baffer | Weird. Sound works only through headphones, but call sound works without headphones. Does Jolla have a separate speaker for calls? I'm trying to figure out if this is a hard- or software problem | 12:34 |
| rigo | _inte_: poll repaired :) | 12:34 |
| _inte_ | rigo: thanks :) | 12:34 |
| arvut | hey, sfOS 2.0 is rather awesome, but I do miss one feature from previous bloodline, the four quickstart apps at the bottom of main screen, can I get them back? | 12:35 |
| Laxtlo_ | inte : you hope so ? ;) | 12:35 |
| arvut | also, is google play gonna work on this any time | 12:35 |
| arvut | s/any time/any time soon/ | 12:35 |
| arvut | damn enter key | 12:35 |
| _inte_ | arvut: their is a patch on OR but its rather a workaround | 12:35 |
| Armadillo | arvut still works for me after update to 1.1.9 | 12:35 |
| _inte_ | it shows the quickstart items briefly when you swipe to home | 12:36 |
| Armadillo | the Play thing^^ | 12:36 |
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| _inte_ | arvut: however, during the time the items are shown its not possible to quickchange apps | 12:36 |
| _inte_ | I therefore disabled it | 12:37 |
| arvut | so the four quicklaunch apps will not come back? | 12:37 |
| _inte_ | so, currently there is not really, but check it out by yourself | 12:37 |
| Armadillo | the status bar at the top took the room for the quick access bar at the bottom | 12:38 |
| Armadillo | it's currently in some sort of hide state | 12:38 |
| arvut | ah | 12:38 |
| Armadillo | you can see it if all apps are closed and you tap on the screen | 12:38 |
| arvut | well, lots of neat changes anyway, gj | 12:38 |
| _inte_ | arvut: vote for it: https://together.jolla.com/question/113827/poll-bring-back-old-gestures-and-cover-actions-or-keep-the-new-interface/ (*advert*) | 12:38 |
| _inte_ | I think there is not really a need for that status bar on the homescreen | 12:39 |
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| arvut | I noticed its not just 9 accessable apps of the ones you have running, but all of them | 12:39 |
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| arvut | I like the quicklaunch of phone, settings and term on lockscreen tho, that really helps | 12:39 |
| arvut | can that pulldown menu be customized ot extend the list? | 12:40 |
| arvut | or change it? | 12:40 |
| _inte_ | some people managed to remove it though: https://together.jolla.com/question/109629/status-bar-disappears-from-screen/ | 12:40 |
| Armadillo | arvut settings/lock screen | 12:41 |
| arvut | cool | 12:41 |
| arvut | I'll have a look | 12:41 |
| arvut | so the quicklaunch moved to a better position more or less | 12:41 |
| arvut | xD | 12:41 |
| Armadillo | no, the menu on the lockscreen already existed on the old versions | 12:42 |
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| Armadillo | it also had an option to mute/unmute | 12:42 |
| Armadillo | which has been removed because of.... | 12:42 |
| Armadillo | reason | 12:42 |
| Armadillo | ^^ | 12:42 |
| _inte_ | I guess no one really needed it on previous releases since there were these quickstarter icons | 12:42 |
| _inte_ | the mute switcher is in openrepos | 12:43 |
| arvut | hmm. only 3 though, can I edit a conf to expand it to 4 maybe? | 12:43 |
| Armadillo | I used it much more then the quickstarter thingy | 12:43 |
| Armadillo | arvut no | 12:43 |
| _inte_ | and i read elsewhere it will be supported officially again shortly | 12:43 |
| Armadillo | or afaik... :) | 12:43 |
| arvut | oh yeah, I miss the silence thing, I use that every day | 12:43 |
| _inte_ | arvut: there is a patch for more shortcuts on openrepos as well | 12:43 |
| arvut | ok | 12:44 |
| _inte_ | arvut: check patchmanager, a lot of things which are broken in 1.1.9 can already be repaired | 12:44 |
| Armadillo | _inte_ are you talking off the mute option? | 12:44 |
| _inte_ | Armadillo: yes | 12:44 |
| Armadillo | ok | 12:44 |
| Armadillo | good to know | 12:44 |
| _inte_ | there is a patch and jolla is going to support it officially soon I think (confirmation needed) | 12:45 |
| arvut | so, about google play, does it work now? | 12:45 |
| _inte_ | arvut: it worked before | 12:46 |
| arvut | k | 12:46 |
| _inte_ | didnt hear anything it wouldnt in 2.0 | 12:46 |
| arvut | im not up to date then :) | 12:46 |
| _inte_ | i removed google services though | 12:46 |
| _inte_ | arvut: you need to install google services by yourself though | 12:46 |
| arvut | yeah well, the app I need are only updated thru google play | 12:46 |
| arvut | k, got any howto's? | 12:47 |
| _inte_ | requires some handwork | 12:47 |
| arvut | im used to that | 12:47 |
| arvut | i run gentoo | 12:47 |
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| _inte_ | arvut: I use apkpure.com | 12:47 |
| _inte_ | it greps the apps from google play | 12:47 |
| _inte_ | you get the apks | 12:47 |
| _inte_ | take care when updating though | 12:47 |
| _inte_ | sometimes earlier releases work on sfos wothout | 12:48 |
| _inte_ | without google services | 12:48 |
| arvut | without? | 12:48 |
| _inte_ | but newer releases wouldnt | 12:48 |
| _inte_ | e.g. my tinder app is a pretty old release | 12:48 |
| _inte_ | newer releases frequently crash | 12:48 |
| arvut | yeah, I need two apps that get frequent updates, both are related to bank transfers | 12:49 |
| _inte_ | but the old version works just fine, no need to upgrade | 12:49 |
| Armadillo | arvut I think this should work: https://together.jolla.com/question/30926/howto-install-google-play/ | 12:49 |
| arvut | I found one of them in aptitoid store but that just won't install cuz its too old | 12:49 |
| * _inte_ .oO(Homebanking on the phone sounds somewhat risky) | 12:49 | |
| _inte_ | arvut: whats that app? | 12:50 |
| _inte_ | which country | 12:50 |
| arvut | swish and mobilt bankid | 12:50 |
| _inte_ | sweden? | 12:50 |
| arvut | yeah | 12:50 |
| arvut | they are kinda essential, everyone use swish (even tho I think it was hacked some time ago) | 12:51 |
| _inte_ | arvut: http://apkpure.com/search?q=bankid®ion=SE | 12:51 |
| arvut | and bankid is just a must to login to certain banks etc etc | 12:51 |
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| _inte_ | some of those? | 12:51 |
| arvut | is apkpure.com just very slow or is it me? | 12:52 |
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| _inte_ | you can download the apk straight away | 12:52 |
| arvut | yeah, the 2nd and 3rd one are the apps I need | 12:52 |
| _inte_ | arvut: yes its slow currently | 12:52 |
| _inte_ | check them out | 12:52 |
| arvut | just need to be sure that they get regular updates, else they won't work after awhile | 12:53 |
| _inte_ | eventually, its your choice regarding security | 12:53 |
| arvut | k, is it doing db updates or something? | 12:53 |
| _inte_ | its an unofficial download even though they claim its from google play | 12:53 |
| _inte_ | dont know if i would trust them for banking apps | 12:53 |
| arvut | would be more secure to know if they were signed by google play tbh | 12:54 |
| _inte_ | dont doing homebanking on my mobile nor do i copy my secret gpg keys on my mobile | 12:54 |
| rigo | arvut: if you want to use google, get an android :) | 12:54 |
| _inte_ | hehe | 12:54 |
| _inte_ | or install the entire google services suit | 12:54 |
| arvut | might as well go for that option | 12:54 |
| rigo | everything will be signed by google and you'll have a nice personalised service | 12:54 |
| _inte_ | arvut: you would have to upgrade by yourself as long as the app doesnt support integrated upgrading | 12:55 |
| rigo | ... but wait a minute, why can't I install this adblocker? | 12:55 |
| arvut | install every google thingy that is needed to run google play in the android sandbox | 12:55 |
| _inte_ | so these apps are not on amazon? | 12:55 |
| _inte_ | arvut: yes | 12:55 |
| arvut | don't think they would have any reason to be on amazon | 12:56 |
| _inte_ | arvut: https://together.jolla.com/question/30926/howto-install-google-play/ | 12:56 |
| arvut | yeah, I'll follow that guide and get back here if problems arise, cheers | 12:56 |
| _inte_ | arvut: there are at least a couple of official apps on amazon | 12:56 |
| _inte_ | good luck | 12:56 |
| _inte_ | make enough space in advance | 12:56 |
| _inte_ | google services suck | 12:57 |
| _inte_ | hu, it turns out this race is getting quite close: https://together.jolla.com/question/113827/poll-bring-back-old-gestures-and-cover-actions-or-keep-the-new-interface/ | 12:59 |
| _inte_ | 15:13 after it was 9:1 | 12:59 |
| _inte_ | interesting | 12:59 |
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| baffer | has anyone else had sound problem like this: sounds work only through headphones, or during call. If I select the "loud speaker" option during call, sound doesn't work | 13:07 |
| baffer | Jolla has only one speaker (?) so this is a software problem? Really weird one since call sounds work if it isn't "loud" | 13:08 |
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| andybranson | who runs the jolla aptoide store? are those apps supposed to work without google play services? | 13:09 |
| Laxtlo_ | http://reviewjolla.blogspot.fi/2015/10/opinion-on-sailfish-os-20-user.html?m=1 | 13:09 |
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| baffer | I fixed the problem by twisting the bottom part... So there is separately a loud speaker and ear piece | 13:14 |
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| ShadowJK | yes. | 13:17 |
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| _inte_ | Laxtlo_: Now we know why Mark Dillon really left SCNR | 13:29 |
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| _inte_ | baffer: i had this problem recently | 13:33 |
| _inte_ | baffer: however, my phone fell down shortly before | 13:33 |
| _inte_ | i tried a few reboots, but still no ringtone, no sound from the speaker etc. | 13:34 |
| _inte_ | i then hit the phone agains some wodden wall a couple of times | 13:34 |
| _inte_ | *sorry* | 13:34 |
| _inte_ | however, eventually the speaker worked again | 13:34 |
| _inte_ | maybe some mechanical problem? | 13:34 |
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| andybranson | sounds like you gave your jolla amnesia | 13:40 |
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| andybranson | cartoon style :) | 13:40 |
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| baffer | _inte_: yeah, I'm guessing some contact issue | 13:47 |
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| Shinryuu | what's the new 'correct' size for ambiences? I've tried to make 540x960 ones but they're still zooming somehow | 13:48 |
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| _inte_ | baffer: https://together.jolla.com/question/30942/intermittent-sound-problems-from-speaker/ | 14:02 |
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| coderus | Tofe: no matter, it's my opinion :) | 15:00 |
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| _inte_ | https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=702&v=c_orOT3Prwg | 15:46 |
| _inte_ | wtf | 15:46 |
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| coderus | :D | 15:55 |
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| coderus | 4M views on youtube after burning room in fire :D | 15:57 |
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| arvut | lol | 16:07 |
| arvut | he actually torch his trash on webcam? | 16:08 |
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| coderus | whole room at the end of video | 16:12 |
| coderus | just helpless man... | 16:13 |
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| stephg | andybranson: I think some/most will? depends on them? instagram does | 16:17 |
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| _inte_ | ;) | 16:27 |
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| Trizt | has anyone else here had issues with sound in the media player, like when it's been for a long while on (not playin) and you have played internet radio with another app, after that it's like muted and no way to unmute it than closing the media player and start it again | 18:12 |
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| coderus | another app is android or sailfish | 18:18 |
| coderus | if sailfish then author not using media resource properly | 18:18 |
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| coderus | if android it's a bug then and post it to tjc | 18:18 |
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| Trizt | coderus: for me it's another sailfishos app | 18:26 |
| Trizt | okey, thanks for the info | 18:27 |
| coderus | report it to application author then | 18:29 |
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| Trizt | done | 18:50 |
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| attah | btrfs </3 | 19:10 |
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| _inte_ | ? | 19:12 |
| _inte_ | full? | 19:12 |
| attah | not even close, 6GB used | 19:13 |
| attah | it just decided to commit suicide.. again | 19:13 |
| r0kk3rz | i wouldnt be surprised if we start seeing jolla change the FS on the phones that get sent for repair | 19:13 |
| r0kk3rz | they already update the recovery | 19:14 |
| attah | this one though is probably a bad flash memory.. | 19:14 |
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| attah | i fully expect it to be able to "recover", just to fail in another month | 19:14 |
| r0kk3rz | attah: that doesnt sound too good | 19:15 |
| attah | r0kk3rz: my thoughts exactly | 19:15 |
| r0kk3rz | if the emmc is failing, then its new phone time | 19:15 |
| attah | yeah.. but android ui is too crap :( | 19:16 |
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| r0kk3rz | yeah theres currently a distinct lack of options for sailfish phones atm | 19:16 |
| attah | and buying a new jolla doesn't quite feel worth it | 19:16 |
| r0kk3rz | wont be too long until you cant even do that | 19:17 |
| attah | i'll see if care decides to be nice to me | 19:17 |
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| r0kk3rz | i hope for you sake its just btrfs | 19:18 |
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| attah | again within a month? | 19:19 |
| attah | oh.. make that 6 weeks actually ;) | 19:20 |
| attah | i'll factory reset and see what happens | 19:21 |
| attah | reset "worked" | 19:23 |
| attah | now it crashes half way through the setup guide thingy | 19:23 |
| attah | nice! | 19:23 |
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| attah | i wonder if there is any chance i could run it off the sd card | 19:27 |
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| r0kk3rz | presumably the underlying fs could be borked | 19:32 |
| r0kk3rz | maybe its worth a dd | 19:32 |
| attah | that's *ahem* what a magic fairy did last time | 19:33 |
| r0kk3rz | oh right | 19:33 |
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| r0kk3rz | carry on then | 19:33 |
| attah | carry on with what? :D | 19:33 |
| r0kk3rz | enjoying your nice stylish finnish designed brick? | 19:34 |
| _inte_ | what is actually the shortcut to refresh events in sf2.0? | 19:34 |
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| attah | r0kk3rz: i thought that was what the box is for | 19:35 |
| _inte_ | i guess in 1.0, one could just pull down events right? | 19:35 |
| r0kk3rz | it is a stylish box | 19:36 |
| attah | indeed | 19:36 |
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| attah | i wonder if the code on the box contains bugs... | 19:37 |
| r0kk3rz | i wonder if it compiles | 19:37 |
| r0kk3rz | maybe its an easteregg thats been staring us in the face the whole time | 19:37 |
| attah | looks like qml to me, so technically it doesn't? ;) | 19:37 |
| _inte_ | after factory reset, are you back on like 1.7. sth? | 19:39 |
| attah | _inte_: no idea, can't get past signing in +/- a few seconds | 19:40 |
| _inte_ | hu | 19:40 |
| _inte_ | recovery mode? | 19:40 |
| attah | _inte_: then what? | 19:41 |
| attah | "Jolla Recovery v0.2.7" | 19:41 |
| _inte_ | dont know, then you could mount the jolla fs and see whats going on | 19:41 |
| _inte_ | like if could acces the entire jolla fs | 19:42 |
| attah | last time i did that all files turned to 0xAA, so i'll opt not to | 19:42 |
| _inte_ | hu | 19:44 |
| attah | less <any file> -> "looks like a binary" -> AAAAAAAAA | 19:44 |
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| r0kk3rz | might be a " Stskeeps Halp " type situation | 19:45 |
| r0kk3rz | but it really isnt sounding good at all | 19:45 |
| attah | true, but even god can't fix broken emmcs | 19:46 |
| tbr | I'd recommend to copy things over to a PC and run fsck on a recent kernel | 19:46 |
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| _inte_ | poll is getting closer again: https://together.jolla.com/question/113827/poll-bring-back-old-gestures-and-cover-actions-or-keep-the-new-interface/ | 19:54 |
| arvut | µµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµµ | 19:55 |
| _inte_ | arvut: ? | 19:55 |
| cb400f | kept the new interface, but bring back the swipe down to sleep gesture (optional) :-) | 19:56 |
| arvut | _inte_: µuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu! | 19:56 |
| Stskeeps | cb400f: there's a setting for at least in apps to close? | 19:56 |
| _inte_ | ?? | 19:56 |
| cb400f | cover actions are a problem.. but not worth sacrificing the caroussel for | 19:56 |
| Stskeeps | to sleep i don't recall | 19:56 |
| Stskeeps | bbl | 19:57 |
| cb400f | not for sleep, I think someone might have an unofficial patch on openrepos, but that's too exciting for me ;-) | 19:57 |
| _inte_ | cb400f: cpver actions dont have anzthing to do do with caroussell | 19:57 |
| arvut | _inte_: have you had amnesia haze? | 19:58 |
| _inte_ | ?? | 19:58 |
| cb400f | yes they do, the nice way of old to trigger cover actions was dropped because of the caroussel | 19:58 |
| arvut | ok | 19:58 |
| cb400f | or changed | 19:58 |
| _inte_ | cb400f in previous releases swiping from homescreen aside was done by edge swipes | 19:59 |
| _inte_ | cover actions were done by pulls | 20:00 |
| r0kk3rz | not sure what you hope to achieve with this poll really | 20:00 |
| _inte_ | now, both pull and edge swipes are doing the caroussel | 20:00 |
| _inte_ | r0kk3rz: bring back the cover actions? | 20:01 |
| _inte_ | https://together.jolla.com/question/113838/poll-bring-back-old-cover-actions-swipes/ | 20:01 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah thats not going to happen | 20:01 |
| _inte_ | i guess this result is pretty clear :) | 20:01 |
| cb400f | was there anything on the sides of the home screen then? ... ambiences? "partner space"? | 20:01 |
| r0kk3rz | i dont think they were taken away lightly | 20:01 |
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| _inte_ | cb400f: exactely | 20:01 |
| _inte_ | r0kk3rz: they were taken away by stupid decisions | 20:02 |
| r0kk3rz | do you know the reasons why they removed them? | 20:02 |
| _inte_ | there is no clear reason | 20:02 |
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| r0kk3rz | then its hard to know whether those reasons were stupid or not | 20:03 |
| _inte_ | r0kk3rz: probably they were taken away for not to confuse first time users | 20:03 |
| r0kk3rz | that does seem to be a deliberate direction yes | 20:03 |
| _inte_ | the plan seems to be to make the entire ui more android-like | 20:03 |
| cb400f | I sometimes trigger the cover actions by accident now, when I want to maximize an app... but I don't have waterproof idea how to make it better like before | 20:04 |
| _inte_ | to make it easier to pull over some android users | 20:04 |
| _inte_ | and not confuse them | 20:04 |
| r0kk3rz | i would say more n9-like than android, from what people are saying | 20:04 |
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| r0kk3rz | but more mainstream for sure | 20:04 |
| _inte_ | well i made the suggestion earlier | 20:05 |
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| _inte_ | in android, users can choose between a "light" mode | 20:05 |
| _inte_ | with bigger buttons, less options etc. | 20:05 |
| _inte_ | and the full featured mode | 20:05 |
| _inte_ | could easily be implemented in the jolla as well | 20:05 |
| _inte_ | jolla should not ignore their users | 20:05 |
| _inte_ | the vast majority of users hates the cover buttons | 20:06 |
| _inte_ | and miss the edge swipes from home | 20:06 |
| _inte_ | in previous relases, one could reach events from everywhere by edge swipe from the bottom | 20:06 |
| _inte_ | edge swipe from the bottom has now also been merged into pull from the bottom and does exactely the same, bring up the app tray | 20:07 |
| r0kk3rz | you can do events from everywhere from right | 20:07 |
| cb400f | but you can make events accessible from anywhere with left edge swipe still | 20:07 |
| cb400f | was it right? | 20:07 |
| _inte_ | r0kk3rz: the guestere with side swipe is totally confusing | 20:07 |
| _inte_ | and peaking is not possible since apps are sent to background | 20:08 |
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| _inte_ | plus if the caroussel gets filled up with different app screen, events will only be one screen somewhere in the caroussel and people will have to rotate the caroussel to reach it | 20:08 |
| r0kk3rz | left, sorry. | 20:08 |
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| r0kk3rz | peeking is the same as before | 20:09 |
| _inte_ | events is not a caroussel screen, its an information screen that should be handeled seperatey | 20:09 |
| _inte_ | like before | 20:09 |
| _inte_ | it should not become a full feautred caroussel page | 20:10 |
| r0kk3rz | i can see benefit in either situation | 20:10 |
| _inte_ | also, leaving side pulls to the screens and not utilizing them for the caroussel opens interessting possibilities for the caroussel screens | 20:10 |
| _inte_ | like it would allow coveractions as before | 20:10 |
| _inte_ | it would allow similar guestures in third-party screens | 20:11 |
| _inte_ | understand what i mean? | 20:11 |
| r0kk3rz | but without doing the whole widgets + notifications android thing, not sure its worth going it 'unlike' in this case | 20:11 |
| _inte_ | if i dont want it unlike I could get an android | 20:11 |
| _inte_ | actually the gestures are the main reason for me not using android | 20:12 |
| _inte_ | stupid button os | 20:12 |
| stephg | ohai! | 20:12 |
| _inte_ | but if jolla decides to drop the gestures, ill rather get an android since on android apps are available | 20:12 |
| _inte_ | or maybe plasma mobile as soon as it is ready | 20:13 |
| stephg | jeez _inte_ you're like a broken record, I come back after 6 hours and you're still harping on about the buttons :P | 20:13 |
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| _inte_ | stephg: ive not been here in between as well :) | 20:13 |
| stephg | haha | 20:14 |
| r0kk3rz | stephg: yep, the current never ending discussions seem to be about cover actions and tablet shipping | 20:14 |
| stephg | r0kk3rz: g'd'evening, how's tricks | 20:14 |
| r0kk3rz | and jolla2 specualation | 20:14 |
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| r0kk3rz | stephg: pretty good, settling in for winter i think | 20:15 |
| stephg | r0kk3rz: did you back the tablet? patiently awaiting mine | 20:15 |
| stephg | yeah I think summer ended yesterday :? | 20:15 |
| stephg | :/ even | 20:15 |
| _inte_ | stephg: well i guess with nearly half of the users wanting the old gesture style back Jolla should definetly offer that as an option | 20:15 |
| r0kk3rz | i 'pre-ordered' mine a few weeks ago | 20:15 |
| r0kk3rz | even had the heaters on at work today | 20:15 |
| r0kk3rz | was coooold | 20:15 |
| _inte_ | jolla said shipping should start tomorrow | 20:15 |
| _inte_ | so I'm curious | 20:16 |
| stephg | r0kk3rz: yikes (re: heating, not ordering) | 20:16 |
| stephg | _inte_: half of the users in a poll or... | 20:16 |
| _inte_ | well | 20:16 |
| r0kk3rz | stephg: was shorts weather in london previous weekend | 20:16 |
| kimmoli | 0 C here now | 20:17 |
| _inte_ | its not an official poll. but it gets a rough idea | 20:17 |
| r0kk3rz | stephg: now jacket weather in the north east | 20:17 |
| stephg | r0kk3rz: it'll be shorts weather here until december (for me at least!) | 20:17 |
| _inte_ | and for the cover actions, the situation is more than clear | 20:17 |
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| _inte_ | drop those fucking buttons | 20:17 |
| stephg | kimmoli: when does sauna season start? or has it, or when does bbq season end, or does it :P | 20:17 |
| r0kk3rz | sauna season never stops | 20:17 |
| tbr | stephg: there is no sauna season, it's always sauna time | 20:18 |
| _inte_ | do people at jolla really think people dont buy it because the gestures are too "complicated"? | 20:18 |
| _inte_ | thats so ridiculous | 20:18 |
| stephg | tbr s/auna/exy/ ;) | 20:18 |
| kimmoli | bbq time just slows down when snow falls | 20:18 |
| _inte_ | people dont buy jolla because they get handsets for free from their providers | 20:18 |
| stephg | kimmoli: see I'd think bbq time should accelerate, fire being warm and all that... | 20:18 |
| _inte_ | its just that easy | 20:18 |
| _inte_ | damned | 20:18 |
| r0kk3rz | kimmoli: it becomes indoor bbq time | 20:18 |
| stephg | _inte_: which country are you in (if you don't mind me asking) | 20:19 |
| _inte_ | germany | 20:19 |
| tbr | meh, we've been watching movies in the forrest and grilling in february, with half a meter of snow | 20:19 |
| stephg | carriers and deals and all that... | 20:19 |
| _inte_ | there is no DNA in my country | 20:19 |
| kimmoli | you shovel snow off from forzen lake to make fire | 20:19 |
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| r0kk3rz | snow fire? | 20:20 |
| r0kk3rz | interesting | 20:20 |
| stephg | _inte_: I'm in the uk and ditto, | 20:20 |
| attah | with enough sisu anything burns | 20:20 |
| _inte_ | except for finland there are no providers offering the jolla phone | 20:20 |
| _inte_ | not even free mobile shops | 20:20 |
| stephg | _inte_: portugal | 20:20 |
| _inte_ | ah, really? | 20:20 |
| _inte_ | ok | 20:20 |
| stephg | iirc india at some stage too | 20:21 |
| _inte_ | didnt know that | 20:21 |
| _inte_ | ok but still | 20:21 |
| stephg | (this was a while back) | 20:21 |
| r0kk3rz | stephg: went to a fairphone 2 thing in london couple of weekend ago, was rather cool | 20:21 |
| _inte_ | could well be that some providers offer jolla to sell their phone if jolla removes the gestures | 20:21 |
| stephg | r0kk3rz: oh really? I was there on the sunday, we should have hooked up :( | 20:21 |
| r0kk3rz | i was also there on the sunday | 20:21 |
| _inte_ | or maybe some people at jolla hope that | 20:22 |
| stephg | r0kk3rz: orly | 20:22 |
| r0kk3rz | i think i just missed simo as well, so sailfish crew represent | 20:22 |
| stephg | were you at the lunchtime workshop? | 20:22 |
| _inte_ | but still, the gestures should be opt-out | 20:22 |
| _inte_ | or opt-in | 20:22 |
| _inte_ | not forced-out | 20:22 |
| r0kk3rz | stephg: approx lunchtimeish until about 1pm | 20:23 |
| r0kk3rz | saw a teardown, and asked too many questions, and then left | 20:23 |
| kimmoli | was this the "wow, much pogopins" | 20:24 |
| r0kk3rz | many many pogopins | 20:24 |
| stephg | we probably saw each other :( I was there, and vakkov and sledges | 20:24 |
| r0kk3rz | oh wow | 20:24 |
| stephg | we were there for the software talk on opening up the software supply chain | 20:24 |
| r0kk3rz | unfortunately i had to leave before the software thing started | 20:24 |
| stephg | ah | 20:24 |
| stephg | doh | 20:24 |
| stephg | and triple doh | 20:25 |
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| r0kk3rz | but i was originally planning on going to that | 20:25 |
| r0kk3rz | was good? | 20:25 |
| stephg | yeah | 20:25 |
| stephg | fairphone wasn't really on my radar, it's cool, the new one looks really cool and the day was great | 20:26 |
| stephg | (hell that office was pretty cool too) | 20:26 |
| r0kk3rz | the glasshouse was a bit warm, but yes | 20:26 |
| r0kk3rz | very fancy | 20:26 |
| _inte_ | i think if kde mobile would run on the fairphone it could be really interesting | 20:26 |
| stephg | yeah | 20:26 |
| r0kk3rz | i really hope their hardware design works out | 20:28 |
| r0kk3rz | the whole pogopins everywhere design makes me think it will be a pain to debug | 20:28 |
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| Nokius | Stskeeps: thanks for your visit tonight a SailfishOS meetup Berlin | 22:06 |
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