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| kimmoli | https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1576245898/moscase-the-smartest-phone-case-ever-developed | 06:26 |
|---|---|---|
| kimmoli | props that it is not called i-something | 06:26 |
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| tore_ | my upgrade to 1.1.4 seems to have not complete successfully. I still have the "system update available" notification, the jolla store app says "store cannot be updated while sailfish os is being updated", even though settings->system->sailfish os updates says I'm on 1.1.4.28 | 07:15 |
| tore_ | anyone have any suggestions on how to recover from this? | 07:15 |
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| Stskeeps | tore_: when did you try to upgrade? | 07:26 |
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| Stskeeps | because we stopped rollout afaik | 07:26 |
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| tore_ | Stskeeps: hmm thursday I think | 07:36 |
| tore_ | Stskeeps: I did 'version --dup', then interrupted it before it did anything but I wonder if it continued the upgrade in the background anyway or something like that | 07:37 |
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| tore_ | so it might be that some post-cleanup job didn't run or something | 07:39 |
| tore_ | why was the rollout stopped, btw? | 07:41 |
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| coderus | tore_: afaik because update failed for some users and device is bricked. | 08:40 |
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| tore_ | ouch | 08:47 |
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| ced117 | kimmoli, lol. I'm sure they dont know the other half from Jolla. | 09:01 |
| ced117 | and this is for what ? the iThing ? hahaha. | 09:02 |
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| chem|st | tore_: running into incomplete upgrades was teh least of the problems | 09:31 |
| r0kk3rz | its all part of the fun | 09:33 |
| r0kk3rz | dont see people with android phones having this much fun over upgrades | 09:33 |
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| chem|st | r0kk3rz: android gets upgrades? | 09:42 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah | 09:42 |
| chem|st | apart of nexus? | 09:42 |
| r0kk3rz | once in a blue moon | 09:42 |
| r0kk3rz | my friends recently had their galaxy4s upgraded to lollipop | 09:42 |
| chem|st | samsung devices seem to get 'one' system upgrade - never got any bugfix upgrades or anything ever since | 09:43 |
| r0kk3rz | must be hard for device manufacturers that churn out several devices each year to keep up | 09:44 |
| sjtoik | there is no money in software upgrades | 09:44 |
| r0kk3rz | especially since you have the whole google -> OEM -> carrier upgrade path | 09:44 |
| chem|st | all 4.x samsung devices have an unreliable wlan firmware, no more upgrades for them | 09:45 |
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| r0kk3rz | cant say ive ever owned one | 09:46 |
| r0kk3rz | had a htc, that was it for my android phones | 09:46 |
| chem|st | sjtoik: that depends on the POV, your android device, let's say SG4, are owned by google and samsung - I would very much like to have my 10M devices upgraded to my latest sota tracking-ads-market-release always | 09:47 |
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| chem|st | it always depends on if they loose more money by not upgrading than by upgrading | 09:48 |
| chem|st | r0kk3rz: you never own a samsung unless you replace the software on it, you are under the impression you own that hardware but actually you don't as with hardware you own you can do what you want and that is clearly not the case with android-hardware (not even jolla!) | 09:50 |
| coderus | if you like new swipe animation in u13 please comment here and tell peoples how awesome is it: https://together.jolla.com/question/90122/aijas-new-swipe-indication | 09:50 |
| chem|st | we should probably start a contest for hacking the drivers for our jolla hardware to OSS | 09:51 |
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| r0kk3rz | chem|st: that's your opinion, im happy enough with the level of control I have over the Jolla | 09:52 |
| r0kk3rz | reverse engineering BSPs is a rather large undertaking | 09:52 |
| chem|st | r0kk3rz: true but without being able to install whatever kernel I want it is still limited | 09:52 |
| chem|st | r0kk3rz: and one good reason for it could be "we are now able to provide you with FOSS flashing tools for your Jolla" | 09:53 |
| chem|st | s/tools/images | 09:54 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah, but the strategy is to support sailfish/ubuntu so that OEMs support more than just android BSPs | 09:54 |
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| r0kk3rz | but if you want to assemble a team of reverse-engineers, then go for it | 09:55 |
| Yaniel | something like MESA? | 09:55 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah or freedreno | 09:55 |
| chem|st | for jolla1 we are late in... | 09:56 |
| r0kk3rz | well if we had jolla2 then more of us would be willing to break our jolla1s for weeks at a time with experimental kernels | 09:58 |
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| chem|st | r0kk3rz: that is where the snake bites its tale, we would do that now if we be able to reflash ourselves | 10:15 |
| chem|st | tail | 10:15 |
| * chem|st needs more coffee for proper language parsing | 10:15 | |
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| eyea_UK | jolla )0!1@ yoh | 12:33 |
| eyea_UK | all good peep | 12:33 |
| pdanek | Jolla 2, the hype! | 12:34 |
| eyea_UK | not for a while says Marc Dillimm | 12:35 |
| eyea_UK | hw stated on YouTube | 12:35 |
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| pdanek | Link please? | 12:36 |
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| eyea_UK | not sure though it was on q & a on the jolla Barcelona vidoe | 12:38 |
| tadzik | why would we hype jolla2 again | 12:39 |
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| eyea_UK | anu | 12:53 |
| Stskeeps | tadzik: more curiously, how many would upgrade to a hypothetical jolla2 | 12:54 |
| Lieke | i want to use my jolla1 for a few more years | 12:54 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, it's not like jolla1 is the worst hw atm | 12:55 |
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| tadzik | Stskeeps: I know I would not | 12:57 |
| tadzik | I'm completely content with the hardware, it's software that I find lacking | 12:57 |
| tadzik | that's why I don't understand the jolla2 desire | 12:57 |
| Yaniel | but muh ram | 12:57 |
| coderus | return Jolla1 to factory and get 50% off ofr Jolla2? :D | 12:57 |
| coderus | for* | 12:58 |
| Nicd- | I just wish there was more memory... | 12:58 |
| Stskeeps | tadzik: my only problem is the business class problem. once you've seen your UI in 2K or 1080p, it's really hard to go back to economy class. | 12:58 |
| Yaniel | hehe | 12:58 |
| Yaniel | just upgraded my desktop screen to 4K and it's just magical | 12:59 |
| Nicd- | that's why next jolla should be 8K | 12:59 |
| Yaniel | ~200dpi | 12:59 |
| Nicd- | Yaniel: HiDPI <3 | 12:59 |
| Yaniel | no more misaligned glyphs :3 | 13:00 |
| tadzik | Stskeeps: yeah, probably | 13:01 |
| Yaniel | and readable kanji at less than 2x2cm physical size | 13:01 |
| tadzik | so those people will not "downgrade" themselves to jolla1 | 13:01 |
| DoReMi | 1.1.4.28 is great for me | 13:06 |
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| r0kk3rz | Stskeeps: it would depend on particulars of course, but I imagine a great many would upgrade to jolla2 | 13:12 |
| r0kk3rz | assuming things like nicer screen, newer soc, more ram, usb3, fixed battery issue .etc | 13:14 |
| locusf | I've only seen videos of 1080p sailfish | 13:14 |
| locusf | nothing live | 13:14 |
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| r0kk3rz | not to mention maybe shipping it to north america and oceania | 13:17 |
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| ShadowJK | wishlist: fix battery, more ram, faster cpus (don't need quad, 2 quicker cores is fine) | 13:18 |
| eyea_UK | come on | 13:19 |
| eyea_UK | jolla is jolla | 13:19 |
| tadzik | peach is peach | 13:19 |
| tadzik | this is always true | 13:19 |
| eyea_UK | indeed | 13:19 |
| r0kk3rz | tautology is tautology | 13:20 |
| eyea_UK | for what jolla is as a device it the purist of Linux | 13:20 |
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| eyea_UK | the way of N 800 / N 900 & N9 | 13:22 |
| eyea_UK | but better | 13:22 |
| tadzik | it's drifting away in many ways and it saddens me | 13:22 |
| ShadowJK | and then finetuning wishlist: sfos:fix connectivity, screen:lower min brightness, speakers:stereo, speakers/headphone: lower min volume | 13:22 |
| tadzik | as in, it has the same good idea about IM: have a client with plugins rather than 1000 apps | 13:22 |
| tadzik | but then Whatsup comes up, and what is it? A separate app. And everyone is amazed | 13:23 |
| Sail0r | but it doesn't make use of it | 13:23 |
| Sail0r | as the settings screen for apps | 13:23 |
| tadzik | rant rant rant | 13:23 |
| Sail0r | but no app is allowed to use it | 13:23 |
| Sail0r | it was a very cool idea to have a centralized screen for settings of any app | 13:23 |
| tadzik | I think it's a missed idea | 13:23 |
| tadzik | when I want to change something about the way app works I'm usually in that app right now | 13:24 |
| tadzik | makes no sense to switch apps to settings | 13:24 |
| Sail0r | well I found it to be a good idea | 13:24 |
| r0kk3rz | same, settings is where you would put stuff you dont want to change very often | 13:24 |
| Sail0r | because i hate the android way of "yeah here are the ringtone and push settings" but wait "the messages app has it's own settings hidden deep in the messages app" | 13:24 |
| tadzik | it would make a lot of sense for installed programs which are not apps | 13:24 |
| tadzik | as in: put mazlock settings in there | 13:25 |
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| tadzik | similarly, Situations's whole UI side is its configuration | 13:25 |
| tadzik | it doesn't need to be on an app list, but it'd fit on the app settings list | 13:25 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah various daemon configurators | 13:26 |
| tadzik | weather too! | 13:26 |
| tadzik | it's useful UI is in eventsview | 13:26 |
| tadzik | the app icon is for configuring stuff | 13:26 |
| r0kk3rz | but the issue is that they need to fix their security model | 13:26 |
| tadzik | who needs to fix whose? | 13:27 |
| r0kk3rz | so you dont have to be root in order to have things in the menu | 13:27 |
| Yaniel | *they need a security model | 13:27 |
| r0kk3rz | they = jolla, in this instance | 13:27 |
| r0kk3rz | there is a security model, its just not a very good one | 13:27 |
| r0kk3rz | nor a very complicated one | 13:27 |
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| kimmoli | r0kk3rz: +1 for daemong configs in settings>apps ... | 13:33 |
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| r0kk3rz | kimmoli: they going to let you put tohkbd daemon in the store? | 13:37 |
| r0kk3rz | for the magic autodownloady nfc tag thing | 13:38 |
| kimmoli | i have toholed, tohiri and letoh already there | 13:38 |
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| r0kk3rz | oh you do? cool | 13:40 |
| r0kk3rz | but they dont let apps install daemons | 13:40 |
| r0kk3rz | interesting | 13:40 |
| r0kk3rz | maybe they've made an exception for you | 13:40 |
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| kimmoli | i'm a big exception myself | 13:43 |
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| tiwake | hmm, facebook chat no longer supports XMPP and thats what the jolla phone app used? What is facebook using in its place for an API? | 14:58 |
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| Acce | who knows? probably facebook only | 15:00 |
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| Acce | the change is just another part of their "masterplan" which started by forcing android & iOs users to use their separate messaging app | 15:01 |
| kimmoli | afaik they switched to mqtt | 15:02 |
| kimmoli | or did it use it already before in some cases? | 15:02 |
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| kimmoli | ah messenger used in 2011. i dont know kwak about facebook, so maybe just shutup now | 15:04 |
| tiwake | donno... I don't really use facebook in general, nor do I have a jolla device (yet) heh | 15:06 |
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| Nicd- | they have some mobile protocol at least, bitlbee uses it | 15:09 |
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| IZh | What about FB REST API? | 15:17 |
| IZh | Are they support chat functionality in its REST API? | 15:19 |
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| IZh | https://developers.facebook.com/products/messenger/ | 15:24 |
| IZh | They have a messenger platform instead. | 15:24 |
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| merlin1991 | hm my twitter stream on the jolla is stuck since 4 day | 15:47 |
| merlin1991 | +s, reboot and manual refresh in the pulldown don't pull in new data... | 15:47 |
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| kimmoli | merlin1991: did you try to re-register? or sync from settings->accounts->twitter->pulldown-sync ? | 15:51 |
| merlin1991 | not yet | 15:53 |
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| tiwake | I like IRC better anyway | 15:55 |
| IZh | tiwake: In IRC it's not possible to send offline message. | 15:56 |
| Lieke | memoserv | 15:57 |
| Morpog_PC | can somebody approve that GPS is flaky on latest opt-in upgrade with HERE? | 15:57 |
| Morpog_PC | https://together.jolla.com/question/90189/here-maps-flaky-gps-with-114-aijanpaivanjarvi/ | 15:57 |
| tiwake | IZh: to be fair, the only way to send an offline message is to direct connect, like a HAM radio... | 15:58 |
| tiwake | and yeah, if the user isnt on then memoserv works well | 15:58 |
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| IZh | tiwake: It's better when offline messages are supported out of the box. Like in ICQ. | 16:02 |
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| merlin1991 | holly crap | 16:06 |
| merlin1991 | journalctl has some interseting errors | 16:06 |
| merlin1991 | *interesting* | 16:06 |
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| merlin1991 | http://paste.debian.net/167496/ | 16:09 |
| M4rtinK | yeah, there is lots of interesting messages and errors in the Journal :) | 16:15 |
| merlin1991 | it looks like something ate my sync configs | 16:16 |
| merlin1991 | they all have size 0! | 16:17 |
| merlin1991 | http://paste.debian.net/167497/ twitter.*-20.xml is a newly created twitter account (it works now) | 16:18 |
| M4rtinK | I'm thinking it might be nice to document the Journal output | 16:22 |
| M4rtinK | on a wiki somewhere or Together, etc. | 16:22 |
| M4rtinK | as there is a lot of Jolla/Sailfish specific stuff | 16:23 |
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| M4rtinK | some of which is quite mysterious :) | 16:23 |
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| kimmoli | Apr 18 17:54:18 Jolla systemd[1]: Time has been changed | 17:01 |
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| Stskeeps | philosophical question of the evening: where does it sound like that your inner voice is coming from, when you speak? if you have multiple voices in your head, list them accordingily.. | 18:21 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:21 |
| tiwake | my voice is my own, why would I need more than one? | 18:22 |
| r0kk3rz | sounds similar to speaking out aloud | 18:22 |
| friese | same here, though quite a lot faster than actually speaking out loud... | 18:23 |
| r0kk3rz | although my inner voice does change fairly frequently depending on where i am, or what ive been watching | 18:23 |
| friese | also when i'm speaking foreign languages the inner voice changes as well, and i think it's got a slightly different personality :) | 18:23 |
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| friese | btw, wasn't there an sailfish os update for early access recently? my jolla doesn't seem to pick up anything, though the box on my jolla account is ticked and i previously received early access updates | 18:33 |
| r0kk3rz | there was 1.1.4.28 | 18:34 |
| r0kk3rz | but they halted the upgrade | 18:34 |
| Stskeeps | friese: the rollout was halted to look at an issue people encountered | 18:34 |
| r0kk3rz | because lots of people had bricked phones | 18:34 |
| friese | ah, thought of sth. like that, though usually my twitter feed is full of warnings then... | 18:34 |
| Stskeeps | well, not lots | 18:36 |
| Stskeeps | sufficient | 18:36 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:36 |
| r0kk3rz | more than the usual quota then | 18:37 |
| friese | let's say at least one ;) | 18:37 |
| r0kk3rz | but imho bricking phones is what the early access updates are all about | 18:38 |
| temmi_hoo | unbricking tools should be available | 18:39 |
| r0kk3rz | yeah, recovery mode | 18:41 |
| r0kk3rz | i havent heard of anyone going full brick from an updgrade | 18:42 |
| temmi_hoo | helsinki hacklab has the jtag jig for n900 | 18:42 |
| temmi_hoo | should we get one for jolla as well? | 18:42 |
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| M4rtinK | Stskeeps: maybe use rpm-ostree for updates in the future ? :) https://github.com/projectatomic/rpm-ostree | 18:45 |
| Stskeeps | won't help; we aren't able to distribute flashable images | 18:45 |
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| M4rtinK | Stskeeps: that constructs the updated state locally first and makes it possible to switch to it (and back if needed) atomically | 18:46 |
| Stskeeps | could do similar with btrfs if we trusted it? | 18:46 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:46 |
| M4rtinK | you mean btrfs send-receive ? | 18:47 |
| M4rtinK | and no, we can't trust it :) | 18:47 |
| M4rtinK | were finding wonky btrfs issues all the time when working on the Fedora installer | 18:47 |
| M4rtinK | like when recently the btrfs tools started returning 1 on success... | 18:48 |
| M4rtinK | also the "official BTRFS is now default in OpenSUSE!" article has some pretty funny comment: https://news.opensuse.org/2014/11/12/what-to-expect-from-btrfs-on-opensuse-13-2/ :) | 18:50 |
| M4rtinK | *comments | 18:51 |
| tiwake | the 4.0 linux kernel has a lot of updates to BTRFS | 18:51 |
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| M4rtinK | *every kernel has* :) | 18:51 |
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| kimmoli | M4rtinK: youtube-like comments? | 18:52 |
| temmi_hoo | so, in five years it's supposedly stable in the devs mind and in ten years sysadmins start experimenting it in real world | 18:52 |
| M4rtinK | kimmoli: mostly people recounting various issues they had with it | 18:53 |
| kimmoli | does it stand for Be There Ready For Systemd ? | 18:53 |
| M4rtinK | temmi_hoo: that's a pretty good estimate, maybe a but too optimistic though :) | 18:53 |
| temmi_hoo | possibly | 18:54 |
| temmi_hoo | there's zfs that works so sysadmins might just continue using it | 18:54 |
| M4rtinK | I've seen other amusing explanations what the name stands for | 18:54 |
| M4rtinK | well, zfs is still out of tree... | 18:55 |
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| eye_a | Jolla )0!1@ yoh | 18:56 |
| temmi_hoo | M4rtinK: i'm speaking of sysadmins, not zealots who think it's super important to use only properly licenced and linus-approved software | 18:57 |
| eye_a | Jolla Sailfish OS - 2.0 | 18:57 |
| eye_a | YIPPY | 18:57 |
| M4rtinK | temmi_hoo: I'm thinking about it more from the enterprise perspective | 18:58 |
| M4rtinK | temmi_hoo: eq. something that enterprise Linux distro vendors & ISVs will support | 18:59 |
| temmi_hoo | now that's different - enterprise sysadmins are entirely comfortable with using only vendor-approved software and if it breaks it's someone elses fault | 18:59 |
| M4rtinK | yeah, its often the only way on those scales | 19:00 |
| temmi_hoo | at most the management gets a nice upfinger and "i told you we need to duplicate all of the storage because of this" | 19:00 |
| M4rtinK | BTW, I've been pleasantly surprised to find the LVM tools in the Sailfish OS repositories after the latest update | 19:00 |
| M4rtinK | not sure if it has been there for some time before the update but was not there a couple of months ago IIRC | 19:01 |
| temmi_hoo | i'm still thinking zfs folks did it right when they skipped the whole lvm out of the design stack | 19:01 |
| M4rtinK | I have zero experience with ZFS | 19:01 |
| temmi_hoo | i have little | 19:02 |
| M4rtinK | but I kinda like how the layering works with LVM | 19:02 |
| temmi_hoo | people in the know seem to either like it or disapprove because of licencing issues (namely: NIH and should be gpl) | 19:02 |
| M4rtinK | also feels more "Unixy" | 19:02 |
| temmi_hoo | i think the fs works better if it has direct access to resources | 19:03 |
| temmi_hoo | the extra layer in between creates a break in the possible communication between spindle scheduling and storage scheduling and fs scheduling | 19:04 |
| M4rtinK | the performance impact is not that bad, if any | 19:05 |
| M4rtinK | it is very optimized | 19:05 |
| M4rtinK | and makes the overall setup much more flexible & future proof | 19:05 |
| Stskeeps | zfs is awesome :P | 19:07 |
| M4rtinK | I guess it is | 19:08 |
| tiwake | BTRFS has a lot better read/write performance than ZFS last I knew | 19:08 |
| M4rtinK | but IIRC it does not really scale down gracefully | 19:08 |
| M4rtinK | like the 8 GB minimal RAM requirements for ZFS | 19:09 |
| Stskeeps | i wouldn't use it on mobile, no | 19:09 |
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| temmi_hoo | i'm not buying the futureproofness of layered storage architecture | 19:10 |
| M4rtinK | hmm, no xfsprogs in the Sailfish OS repositories :) | 19:11 |
| pdanek | Why Linux world is always so crazy about filesystem choice? | 19:14 |
| pdanek | Does FS really matter that much? | 19:14 |
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| pdanek | Will you know the difference as desktop / mobile user? | 19:15 |
| ggabriel | once you go back in time to ntfs or hfs+, you appreciate linux's choices | 19:15 |
| pdanek | :) | 19:15 |
| ggabriel | even openbsd's ffs | 19:15 |
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| IZh | Ext4 is a good choice. ;-) | 19:19 |
| r0kk3rz | when it comes to file systems, im not sure there is a good choice | 19:20 |
| r0kk3rz | only bad or worse | 19:20 |
| ggabriel | from a desktop user perspective, i'm quite happy that i don't have to run a fsck if my laptop happens to crash with ext4 | 19:20 |
| M4rtinK | I've been lately using xfs on LVM everywhere and all has been working just fine | 19:21 |
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| ggabriel | i thought i'd wait for btrfs to mature instead of switching to xfs :) | 19:21 |
| r0kk3rz | been a long time since ive had issues with ntfs either | 19:22 |
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| r0kk3rz | but that doesnt make it a good file system | 19:22 |
| ggabriel | no, ntfs and hfs+ are only extremely slow | 19:22 |
| ggabriel | and supported properly only by m$ and apple respectively | 19:22 |
| M4rtinK | and by everywhere I also mean that USB attached disk I formatted with a LVM thin pool holding a XFS formatted thin volume last weekend :) | 19:22 |
| ggabriel | so, i'm scared to rw in ntfs/hfs+ with linux for example | 19:22 |
| r0kk3rz | i ran ntfs-3g on debian for ages | 19:28 |
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